From: D. C. Sessions on
Citizen Jimserac wrote:

> On Sep 12, 10:53�am, "D. C. Sessions" <d...(a)lumbercartel.com> wrote:
>> CitizenJimseracwrote:
>> > Another example, a cancer researcher whose funding was denied due to
>> > "experts" wooifying his work and who, having exhausted almost all
>> > avenues for funding was lucky enough to get a grant from Monsanto
>> > which allowed him to complete his work, successfully and
>> > open up a new field in cutting off the blood supply to kill cancer.
>>
>> I gather that you're trying to rewrite the history of the late
>> Judah Folkman?
>>
> Yeah Folkman, he died not long ago. Don't tell
> me you think HE'S the bad guy??

Not at all -- you're the one making up the story, so by all
means tell it. I was just trying to connect your mythical
figures with actual people.

> Oh I can't wait to here this, go ahead....

Not my story to tell.

--
| The brighter the stupid burns, the more |
| chance that someone will see the light. |
+- D. C. Sessions <dcs(a)lumbercartel.com> -+
From: Citizen Jimserac on
On Sep 12, 12:30 pm, "D. C. Sessions" <d...(a)lumbercartel.com> wrote:
> CitizenJimseracwrote:
> > On Sep 12, 10:53 am, "D. C. Sessions" <d...(a)lumbercartel.com> wrote:
> >> CitizenJimseracwrote:
> >> > Another example, a cancer researcher whose funding was denied due to
> >> > "experts" wooifying his work and who, having exhausted almost all
> >> > avenues for funding was lucky enough to get a grant from Monsanto
> >> > which allowed him to complete his work, successfully and
> >> > open up a new field in cutting off the blood supply to kill cancer.
>
> >> I gather that you're trying to rewrite the history of the late
> >> Judah Folkman?
>
> > Yeah Folkman, he died not long ago.  Don't tell
> > me you think HE'S the bad guy??
>
> Not at all -- you're the one making up the story, so by all
> means tell it.  I was just trying to connect your mythical
> figures with actual people.
>
> > Oh I can't wait to here this, go ahead....
>
> Not my story to tell.
>


I see then, you've GOT NOTHING to say,
just a little random attempt at discrediting
another researcher.

No problem.

Citizen Jimserac
From: D. C. Sessions on
Citizen Jimserac wrote:

> No no DC, you'll not be allowed to get off that easy
> with your innuendo this time. The SUBJECT of this thread is the
> irrational attacks against a perfectly respectable, well credentialed
> practicing physician who made CRITICAL REMARKS against the Big VAX
> establishment and was ATTACKED, quite irrationally and INSULTED by the
> mouthpiece so-called ORAC.

You're so cute when you run out of things to say and substitute
YELLING in their place.

As for jaygordon, his big "critical remark" amounted to objections
to formaldehyde in vaccines and vague objections to "there must be
better adjuvants." Alas, he admitted he was off-base on the formalin
and couldn't name any "better adjuvants." Although, it should be
noted, he also hasn't changed his position on formaldehyde either.

> I have made the assertion that this kind of irrational and reactionary
> criticism seems to serve only one purpose - the establishment of
> medical totalitarianism and the abolition of freedom of medical choice
> for individuals.

Dude, the "irrational and reactionary" part is your attempt to wind
back the clock to the 18th century. Nice try.

> I pointed out valid critical remarks regarding the vaccination of
> babies with vaccines containing the so-called "adjuvant" aluminum
> salts which were made by Dr. Gordon, along with other of his critical
> remarks - these criticsms remained unacknowledged, denied, or evaded
> by Orac, by you and by everyone else.

Hey, I'm still waiting for Gordon answer the questions I asked. He
begged off on the grounds that a power outage had trapped him on
an escalator and he hasn't gotten back.

> Finally, I have given two instances where genuine and now proven
> medical research was subverted, blocked or delayed by excessive and
> unwarranted criticism based on innuendo and resistance to change,
> rather than on facts and the patience to allow and await research
> results, namely the discovery of the H. Pylorii bacteria as a
> causative factor of certain types of ulcers and the reseaerch work of
> J. Folkman.

No, you have given two vague citations to fairy tales.
It's very hard to point out the discrepancies between your
fantasies and reality if you won't disclose what exactly your
fevered imagination has produced; unlike reality, we don't have
access to your delusions. Not that I'm complaining.

> You have made brief responses but are completely lacking
> in factual, reasoned or substansive responses on every issue.

That's because they were in response to blatherings that had
no resemblance to fact, reason, or substance.

> You briefly made reference to Folkman implying some sort of
> deception in describing his denial of funding
> but PROVIDING NO LINKS and then assert that I am "rewriting" the
> history of Folkman.

No, I was asking you if your fantasy involved him, since you
hadn't named the hero of your myth. Hard for me to provide
details, doncha know, for your own little fever dream.

> HERE ARE THE EXACT WORDS FROM THE NY TIMES OBITUARY REGARDING
> FOLKKMAN:
> "Dr. Judah Folkman, a path-breaking cancer researcher who faced years
> of skepticism before his ideas led to successful treatments, died
> Monday in Denver. He was 74. "

Sounds a bit exaggerated, but not far off. What's your beef?

> and from Time magazine, THIS:
>
> "His hunch, dating to his early days in the lab in the 1960s, that
> cancer tumors rely on the formation of new blood vessels for
> nourishment and growth, has since led to six FDA-approved anticancer
> drugs that weaken tumors by blocking their blood supply. "The idea was
> met with skepticism and ridicule back then, but he doggedly persisted
> in proving his ideas," says Li. "He lived long enough to see his idea
> transformed into new treatments for colon cancer, lung cancer, kidney
> cancer, liver cancer and multiple myeloma."

So? How is this a problem?

> And YET MORE DETAILS about Judah Folkman
> from Scientific American, including his
> funding from Monsanto:
> http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?id=father-of-breakthrough-ca
>
> "For much of the next two decades Folkman was treated as a pariah by
> his peers, who dismissed his theory outright. He was criticized
> whenever he announced a finding. To continue his unpopular research
> after all other funding sources dried up, he was forced to take a
> hefty sum?$23 million?from chemical company Monsanto."
>
> "Convinced he was on the right track, he persevered in the face of
> adversity. By the mid-1990s the tide turned in his favor when
> researchers in his lab discovered that two natural proteins,
> angiostatin and endostatin, could effectively block angiogenesis."

My favorite eulogy to Dr. Folkman is here:
http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2008/01/judah_folkman_a_true_scientific_giant_ha.php

> So you see, my dear D.C., there was NO made up story
> and your innuendo has now been exposed.

What innuendo? I asked if you were trying to rewrite the
story of Judah Folkman (whose name you apparently didn't even
know) and, as it turns out, you were. Thank you for confirming
that. The story you post above bears no resemblance to the
fevered delusion you originally spewed here.

Would you like to try to correct your fantasies regarding
Marshall, Warren, and /heliobacter pylori/ ?

--
| The brighter the stupid burns, the more |
| chance that someone will see the light. |
+- D. C. Sessions <dcs(a)lumbercartel.com> -+
From: Martin on
On Fri, 12 Sep 2008 09:50:35 -0700 (PDT), Citizen Jimserac
<Jimserac(a)gmail.com> wrote:

>On Sep 12, 12:30�pm, "D. C. Sessions" <d...(a)lumbercartel.com> wrote:
>> CitizenJimseracwrote:
>> > On Sep 12, 10:53�am, "D. C. Sessions" <d...(a)lumbercartel.com> wrote:
>> >> CitizenJimseracwrote:
>> >> > Another example, a cancer researcher whose funding was denied due to
>> >> > "experts" wooifying his work and who, having exhausted almost all
>> >> > avenues for funding was lucky enough to get a grant from Monsanto
>> >> > which allowed him to complete his work, successfully and
>> >> > open up a new field in cutting off the blood supply to kill cancer.
>>
>> >> I gather that you're trying to rewrite the history of the late
>> >> Judah Folkman?
>>
>> > Yeah Folkman, he died not long ago. �Don't tell
>> > me you think HE'S the bad guy??
>>
>> Not at all -- you're the one making up the story, so by all
>> means tell it. �I was just trying to connect your mythical
>> figures with actual people.
>>
>> > Oh I can't wait to here this, go ahead....
>>
>> Not my story to tell.
>>
>
>
>I see then, you've GOT NOTHING to say,
>just a little random attempt at discrediting
>another researcher.
>
>No problem.
>
>Citizen Jimserac

You are aware, I presume, that Folkman is one of Orac's heroes?
From: D. C. Sessions on
Martin wrote:
> On Fri, 12 Sep 2008 09:50:35 -0700 (PDT), Citizen Jimserac
> <Jimserac(a)gmail.com> wrote:

>>Citizen Jimserac
>
> You are aware, I presume

You presume too much.

--
| The brighter the stupid burns, the more |
| chance that someone will see the light. |
+- D. C. Sessions <dcs(a)lumbercartel.com> -+