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From: Patti on 22 Oct 2005 02:19
Would someone tell me what the main differences are between Humalog and
Novolog? One of my doctors prefers that I use Humalog, the other doctor
favors Novolog.
Since I am using Humalog, I am just curious.

Thanks,
Patti

From: charlie on 22 Oct 2005 05:59
Patti, when the VA apparently got novolog cheaper I got switched
without an explanation. I don't see much difference. I think the
pumpers use it because it is more stable but at any rate anything is
better than NPH or 70/30, for me, at least. My bg readings yesterday
were 70 at 0700,
143 at 1200, 111 at 5:00pm and 62 at 8:00 pm when I took my lantus
(18U). My last three A1C's were 6.9, 6.9 and 6.8 so apparently I have
enough bad days to offset the good days. I check my bg at least 6 times
a day, and take 5 units of novolog at each meal. I usually have to eat
a snack between meals or at night.
Charlie

From: oldal4865 on 22 Oct 2005 08:59

Patti wrote in message
<1129961949.183971.150050(a)z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>...
>Would someone tell me what the main differences are between Humalog and
>Novolog? One of my doctors prefers that I use Humalog, the other doctor
>favors Novolog.
>Since I am using Humalog, I am just curious.
>
>Thanks,
>Patti
>

This tends to be a YMMV situation.

On paper, Novolog is a bit slower but just a bit. It also has a bit
longer tail.

However, in real life, you are likely to see one of four outcomes if you
run some sort of head to head comparison:

1. You won't notice a bit of difference (like me)

2. Humalog is a little bit faster

3. Novolog is a little bit faster (Yup. . .some folks have seen that)

4. Novolog is very much slower, about as slow as Regular

There seems to be an antibody effect in some folks (that's just a guess
though). If you have a little bit of antibody reaction to either one,
that one is going to be a bit slower. If you have a heckuva lot of
antibody reaction to either one, that one is going to be very much slower.

So far, we have had one poster testify to a heckuva reaction to Novolog.
None of our posters has reported such a reaction to Humalog.

The same seems to hold true for insulin pumps. Here is a post from our
sometimes Endo on that subject (inflammatory response = allergy = YMMV):

"From: William C Biggs, MD
Subject: Re: Lantus not being consistent
Newsgroups: misc.health.diabetes
Date: 2003-09-13 11:30:55 PST

Randy,

We have had similar experiences.

The problem appears to not be the integrity of the insulin in the
bottle/syringe/tubing as much as an individual's inflammatory reaction to
the insertion site for the infusion set.

Currently available insulins give us less problem with line occlusions from
precipitation than the original Humulin R, and Iletin I regular of the past.
In the old days we would use Velosulin R and Humulin BR because of those
concerns. Now I can't remember the last line occlusion that had visible
precipitation.

The best reference I've seen published used 42 inch MiniMed plastic syringes
& Soft Sets; and Disetronic 55 inch borosilicate glass syringes with metal
needles is:

'Diabetes Care. 1997 Jul;20(7):1061-5
Stability of insulin Lispro in insulin infusion systems.
Lougheed WD, Zinman B, Strack TR, Janis LJ, Weymouth AB, Bernstein EA,
Korbas AM, Frank BH.'

They found no change in the insulin concentration at 48 hours. The accuracy
of their measurements was +/- 4%.

I wish they had gone out to 72 hours, but at 48 hours no hint of significant
insulin activity loss.

Our problems appear to be the sites themselves. At the end of the infusion
set needle a lot of complex things are happening...there is an inflammatory
response to the foreign body (the needle) and to the high insulin
concentrations as well. There is a mechanical trauma from the tip moving as
you move around. (Remember we are dealing with microscopic distances
here...)

The net result is that insulin absorption is impaired by this local
inflammatory reponse at the needle tip.

I would not at all be surprised if one person had a different response to a
specific insulin type than another person, since everyone's immune / allergy
system is different.

Thus Novolog lasts longer for you, and Humalog may be better for a friend.

In Atlanta, Bruce Bode tested Novolog vs Velosulin
Efficacy, safety, and pump compatibility of insulin aspart used in
continuous subcutaneous insulin infusion therapy in patients with type 1
diabetes.

Diabetes Care. 2001 Jan;24(1):69-72
'. . .CONCLUSIONS: Insulin aspart and buffered regular human insulin were
effective and well tolerated and provided similar pump compatibility when
used in CSII therapy.. . .'

When a patient has problems with insulin fade on Day 3, we try several
things...change the insulin brand , change the type of needle , or change
the site from belly to leg, hip or arm.

Many, in fact most, users don't have a day 3 fade problem. Since they are
using the same insulin, the same syringes, same pump, and live in the same
environment as the patients who do have fading, it is probably not the
insulin, syringe, pump or environment.

It is vastly more likely to be their own individual inflammatory response to
the insulin/needle combination. That can be addressed making modifications
similar to yours.

Cheers,
William C Biggs, MD"

Regards
Old Al







From: RK on 22 Oct 2005 09:02

"Patti" <lokkie(a)charter.net> wrote in message
news:1129961949.183971.150050(a)z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
| Would someone tell me what the main differences are between Humalog and
| Novolog? One of my doctors prefers that I use Humalog, the other doctor
| favors Novolog.
| Since I am using Humalog, I am just curious.
|
| Thanks,
| Patti
|

I think overall its more preference. I started on Humalog and started
having
to inject more because it just wasn't working the way it should. For me I
believe since Humalog is more of a 'human' synthetic type insulin and
Novolog
is more of a immitation insulin (the way I understand it) I started to
develop
antibodies to the Humalog which started my body resisting it.

I switched to Novolog at my request after reading up on the two and found
Novolog works a bit faster which it does with me also and since switching I
get a much better correction ratio and carb/insulin ratio. For me 1u of
Novolog
will drop me anywhere from 45pt to a 70pt drop within a hour. Usually by
the
4hr mark I'll have to have a small snack to keep me from going hypo if I'm
not
eating a regular meal.

Novolog is also approved for pumps because Humalog has been reported to
have chrystalize at the res. top.

RK, t1 pumper


From: Alan Hardy on 22 Oct 2005 10:29
oldal4865 wrote
> Patti wrote
>>Would someone tell me what the main differences are between Humalog and
>>Novolog? One of my doctors prefers that I use Humalog, the other doctor
>>favors Novolog.
>>Since I am using Humalog, I am just curious.
>>
>>Thanks,
>>Patti
>>
>
> This tends to be a YMMV situation.
>
> On paper, Novolog is a bit slower but just a bit. It also has a bit
> longer tail.
>
> However, in real life, you are likely to see one of four outcomes if
> you
> run some sort of head to head comparison:
>
> 1. You won't notice a bit of difference (like me)
>
> 2. Humalog is a little bit faster
>
> 3. Novolog is a little bit faster (Yup. . .some folks have seen that)
>
> 4. Novolog is very much slower, about as slow as Regular
>
> There seems to be an antibody effect in some folks (that's just a guess
> though). If you have a little bit of antibody reaction to either one,
> that one is going to be a bit slower. If you have a heckuva lot of
> antibody reaction to either one, that one is going to be very much
> slower.
>
> So far, we have had one poster testify to a heckuva reaction to Novolog.
> None of our posters has reported such a reaction to Humalog.
>
i am the one with the true nasties in reaction to Novolog. My GP, nurse, and
me, all have the same idea -- which is, that the aspart which replaces
alanine at postion B29 in the insulin is the culprit. i was completely
unable to stop skin itches, skin blistering, and also unable to control the
activity profile. [other more "personal" problems, too :-(( ] Aspart is an
amino acid which does not naturally occur, but is manufactured by hydrolysis
of asparagine, which occurs in young sugar cane and similar plants. Since i
am the only one i know of with these reactions, don't worry about it for
you. Just info.

i have no problem with Humalog, but severe problems with other non-animal
insulins -- and i have tried several.

Alan H
--
Never go to bed mad. Stay up and fight!

Phyllis Diller


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