Biological Fathers Visitation Rights - Early Drop-Off
in [Step Parents]
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From: woomis on 2 Jul 2007 12:51 Hello All! She has them all week, except mondays are his, and every other weekend is his. Pick up and drop off times for the children DO NOT have exact times but rather the following is assumed from the court: Every other weekend for the Biological Father's visitation. She drops them off at school (or daycare during summer) and he picks them up at 3:30 at school, she picks up at 6:00 at whatever RANDOM place he chooses, sometimes even a playground 30 miles away after his weekend is over. Every monday (when it is her weekend), she drops them off as school/ daycare, he picks them up at 3:30 at school/daycare. Pretty Simple... However, today the kids do not have school, and the daycare is closed for a vacation. She figures the father would like some extra time so she goes to his house to drop them off, she brings them to the door and the father, his new wife, new baby and his wife's baby are refusing to answer the door. Her children are crying because they dont understand why their dad wont open the door. While she's ringing the doorbell and waiting she gets a text message from him inside saying "You are not above the law". Apparently visitation that says "After school/daycare Monday", means 3:30 ALWAYS? I am just a stepparent and have no history with visitation rights. Is he correct about 3:30? Or would the judge look at it as an irresponsible activity on his part? Any advice or explanation would be greatly appreciated! -- Joe
From: Tracey on 2 Jul 2007 13:40 woomis(a)gmail.com wrote: > Apparently visitation that says "After school/daycare Monday", means > 3:30 ALWAYS? Unless otherwise previously agreed to, yes, IMO. > I am just a stepparent and have no history with visitation rights. Is > he correct about 3:30? Or would the judge look at it as an > irresponsible activity on his part? > > Any advice or explanation would be greatly appreciated! While I do not believe that the father's actions were in any way responsible or mature, I would like to point out that your wife's decision to take the children to his house without asking him if it was okay *first* was the catalyst for this situation. And I would wonder what her thought process was when deciding that dropping the children off at a time when the father wasn't ex- pecting them was. In the future, I would recommend that she make sure that the father is ready and willing to take the children early and not assume that that is the case. Tracey
From: woomis on 2 Jul 2007 14:34 On Jul 2, 10:40 am, Tracey <rbranch...(a)aol.com> wrote: > > Apparently visitation that says "After school/daycare Monday", means > > 3:30 ALWAYS? > > Unless otherwise previously agreed to, yes, IMO. I appreciate your input and I am very "wet behind the ears" to what is right and wrong when it comes to visitation. I'm battling in my mind over legal rhetoric and plain common sense. If they were my children that I cannot see often I would want to see them every chance I got, but then again, in the middle of a court battle I would also want to use anything I could to try and build a case of irresponsibility and disregard on her part. My common sense tells me visitation on Mondays should be Primarily school/daycare (education) and Secondary as soon as possible, i.e. 3:30 and it does not seem absurd to assume that on Monday Visitation day 9am reasonable as a failsafe since he has visitation already that day and makes time AROUND education. Since he would not speak to her and when she drives the kids to his house and he hides, pretends he's not there, and wont speak to her or the children while they're crying because they feel daddy doesnt care about them I think that is crossing the line and is indirectly affecting me now. There definately needs to be a better line of communication between them. However, there are mind games involved on his part, and it is not always possible to even speak to him, she often has to do things on her "gut feeling". Whenever that happens he insures she looks like the "bad and irresponsible parent who is above the law". This is difficult becuase I understand where he is coming from while trying to interpret a court order, and on the otherhand where she is coming from assuming that he would like to see his children as much as possible. Their actions have now hurt her children's feelings and I get to play middle man some more. I wish step-parenting came with a manual. -- Joe
From: Tracey on 2 Jul 2007 15:31 woomis(a)gmail.com wrote: > On Jul 2, 10:40 am, Tracey <rbranch...(a)aol.com> wrote: > > >>>Apparently visitation that says "After school/daycare Monday", means >>>3:30 ALWAYS? >> >>Unless otherwise previously agreed to, yes, IMO. > > > I appreciate your input and I am very "wet behind the ears" to what is > right and wrong when it comes to visitation. I'm battling in my mind > over legal rhetoric and plain common sense. See, the problem is that not everyone has the same 'common sense.' I mean, it's also perfectly good common sense that you (generic you, not you personally) don't change plans without a heads up to the other parties involved unless it's an emergency. >If they were my children that I cannot see often I would want to see >them every chance I got, But, OTOH, many times a parent will end up feeling and *being* taken advantage of. One interpretation of your wife's actions could be that she has no respect for the fact that the father might have had other plans or been otherwise occupied. In all honesty, my advice to newly separated/divorced parents is to stick with the court-ordered parenting times and to not assume that the other parent will be available at other times. Give the other parent 'right of first refusal', sure, but to not be frustrated or angry or have expectations that the other parent will be available (other than an emergency, of course.) > but then again, in the middle of a court battle I would also want to > use anything I could to try and build a case of irresponsibility and > disregard on her part. Well, honestly, neither one of them came off too good in this situation, IMO. > My common sense tells me visitation on Mondays should be Primarily > school/daycare (education) and Secondary as soon as possible, i.e. > 3:30 and it does not seem absurd to assume that on Monday Visitation > day 9am reasonable as a failsafe since he has visitation already that > day and makes time AROUND education. Well, my common sense tells me that my parenting time would start at 3:30 so my ex has the responsibility up until that time unless they make other arrangements with me. >Since he would not speak to her > and when she drives the kids to his house and he hides, pretends he's > not there, and wont speak to her or the children while they're crying > because they feel daddy doesnt care about them I think that is > crossing the line and is indirectly affecting me now. Here's a question. How did the kids know that he was there? If it were me, when the door wasn't answered, I would have told the kids that their father must not be home and taken them back to the car. Would it have been a lie and would I have known it was a lie? Most likely, but to do anything different would be icky, IMO. > There definately needs to be a better line of communication between > them. However, there are mind games involved on his part, and it is > not always possible to even speak to him, she often has to do things > on her "gut feeling". Whenever that happens he insures she looks like > the "bad and irresponsible parent who is above the law". Again, honestly, her actions *can* be seen as bad and irresponsible. Now, don't get me wrong. I think that a parent who hides out in their house is taking the coward's way out and isn't acting in a mature way. And if her ex were here, I would tell him so. But, I can only talk to and about the actions of the person who is here discussing it. Now, it's not your wife but you here so it's even more difficult. IMO, the best thing for your wife to do is to stick to the parenting plan and to make sure that she gives her ex the opportunity to make his own decisions as to whether the parenting plan should be adjusted or not and not assume that he will react the way she would in any given situation. Tracey
From: Banty on 2 Jul 2007 16:25
In article <1183395092.654704.87010(a)a26g2000pre.googlegroups.com>, woomis(a)gmail.com says... > >Hello All! > >She has them all week, except mondays are his, and every other weekend >is his. Pick up and drop off times for the children DO NOT have exact >times but rather the following is assumed from the court: > >Every other weekend for the Biological Father's visitation. She drops >them off at school (or daycare during summer) and he picks them up at >3:30 at school, she picks up at 6:00 at whatever RANDOM place he >chooses, sometimes even a playground 30 miles away after his weekend >is over. > >Every monday (when it is her weekend), she drops them off as school/ >daycare, he picks them up at 3:30 at school/daycare. > >Pretty Simple... > >However, today the kids do not have school, and the daycare is closed >for a vacation. She figures the father would like some extra time so >she goes to his house to drop them off, she brings them to the door >and the father, his new wife, new baby and his wife's baby are >refusing to answer the door. Her children are crying because they >dont understand why their dad wont open the door. > >While she's ringing the doorbell and waiting she gets a text message >from him inside saying "You are not above the law". > >Apparently visitation that says "After school/daycare Monday", means >3:30 ALWAYS? > >I am just a stepparent and have no history with visitation rights. Is >he correct about 3:30? Or would the judge look at it as an >irresponsible activity on his part? > >Any advice or explanation would be greatly appreciated! This one is simple. It isn't any different with visitation than it is for anything else: When there is a change of plans, call ahead about it. If you're the one who initiates the change of plans, call and propose it. And be willing to take 'no' for an answer. Banty |