From: Blinky Bill on


"dr_jeff" <utz(a)msu.edu> wrote in message
news:KIidnbkWXeU6sRbWnZ2dnUVZ_s2dnZ2d(a)giganews.com...
> Blinky Bill wrote:
>>
>>
>> <bae(a)cs.toronto.no-uce.edu> wrote in message
>> news:2010Feb28.211740.14436(a)jarvis.cs.toronto.edu...
>>> In article <iK2dnZfGJ_rVhhbWnZ2dnUVZ_qSdnZ2d(a)giganews.com>,
>>> dr_jeff <utz(a)msu.edu> wrote:
>>>> Blinky Bill wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> "dr_jeff" <utz(a)msu.edu> wrote in message
>>>>> news:hpSdnVuXI-VzZhfWnZ2dnUVZ_r9i4p2d(a)giganews.com...
>>>>>> john wrote:
>>>>>>> "dr_jeff" <utz(a)msu.edu> wrote in message
>>>>>>> news:mJednTVIrIRQaxfWnZ2dnUVZ_smdnZ2d(a)giganews.com...
>>>>>>>> john wrote:
>>>>>>>>> http://www.whale.to/b/bill_gates1.html
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> "If we do a really great job on vaccines, health care,
>>>>>>>>> reproductive
>>>>>>>>> health services, we could lower that [his initial 2050 global
>>>>>>>>> population projection of 9-billion] by perhaps about 10 to 15
>>>>>>>>> percent." ---Bill Gates
>>>>>>>> With better health care, including vaccines and reproductive health
>>>>>>>> services, people have fewer children, leading to a lower increase
>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>> human population.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Jeff
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> he didn't say that, but nice attempt at spin
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Where did he say that?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Please show I am wrong.
>>>>>
>>>>> Gates may have been referring to hCG vaccine or other anti-pregnancy
>>>>> vaccines.
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC44640/?log%24=activity
>>>>
>>>> I don't think so. Bill Gate's foundation has paid for a lot of health
>>>> care in developing nations as well as vaccine development against
>>>> infectious diseases.
>>>
>>> "Reproductive health services" means access to birth control. Like
>>> women in developed countries, women in underdeveloped countries would
>>> prefer not to have more children than they can raise to healthy
>>> adulthood. That option is not open to most of them now.
>>
>> Exactly. And a contraceptive vaccine that is effective for several years
>> is likely to be more successful (and probably cheaper) than methods which
>> rely on remembering to take pills on a daily basis.
>
> Where there is better health (in part from vaccines and improved access to
> health care), kids are more likely to make it to adulthood, so adults
> don't need to have as many kids to ensure that some of their kids will
> make it to adulthood.

They don't need to but the evidence of population growth in most developing
countries is that they still are.

> Reproductive health care means more than birth control.

In the context of reducing the current estimate of population in 2050 it
probably doesn't mean much more than birth control.



From: dr_jeff on
Blinky Bill wrote:
>
>
> "dr_jeff" <utz(a)msu.edu> wrote in message
> news:KIidnbkWXeU6sRbWnZ2dnUVZ_s2dnZ2d(a)giganews.com...
>> Blinky Bill wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> <bae(a)cs.toronto.no-uce.edu> wrote in message
>>> news:2010Feb28.211740.14436(a)jarvis.cs.toronto.edu...
>>>> In article <iK2dnZfGJ_rVhhbWnZ2dnUVZ_qSdnZ2d(a)giganews.com>,
>>>> dr_jeff <utz(a)msu.edu> wrote:
>>>>> Blinky Bill wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "dr_jeff" <utz(a)msu.edu> wrote in message
>>>>>> news:hpSdnVuXI-VzZhfWnZ2dnUVZ_r9i4p2d(a)giganews.com...
>>>>>>> john wrote:
>>>>>>>> "dr_jeff" <utz(a)msu.edu> wrote in message
>>>>>>>> news:mJednTVIrIRQaxfWnZ2dnUVZ_smdnZ2d(a)giganews.com...
>>>>>>>>> john wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> http://www.whale.to/b/bill_gates1.html
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> "If we do a really great job on vaccines, health care,
>>>>>>>>>> reproductive
>>>>>>>>>> health services, we could lower that [his initial 2050 global
>>>>>>>>>> population projection of 9-billion] by perhaps about 10 to 15
>>>>>>>>>> percent." ---Bill Gates
>>>>>>>>> With better health care, including vaccines and reproductive
>>>>>>>>> health
>>>>>>>>> services, people have fewer children, leading to a lower
>>>>>>>>> increase in
>>>>>>>>> human population.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Jeff
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> he didn't say that, but nice attempt at spin
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Where did he say that?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Please show I am wrong.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Gates may have been referring to hCG vaccine or other anti-pregnancy
>>>>>> vaccines.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC44640/?log%24=activity
>>>>>
>>>>> I don't think so. Bill Gate's foundation has paid for a lot of health
>>>>> care in developing nations as well as vaccine development against
>>>>> infectious diseases.
>>>>
>>>> "Reproductive health services" means access to birth control. Like
>>>> women in developed countries, women in underdeveloped countries would
>>>> prefer not to have more children than they can raise to healthy
>>>> adulthood. That option is not open to most of them now.
>>>
>>> Exactly. And a contraceptive vaccine that is effective for several
>>> years is likely to be more successful (and probably cheaper) than
>>> methods which rely on remembering to take pills on a daily basis.
>>
>> Where there is better health (in part from vaccines and improved
>> access to health care), kids are more likely to make it to adulthood,
>> so adults don't need to have as many kids to ensure that some of their
>> kids will make it to adulthood.
>
> They don't need to but the evidence of population growth in most
> developing countries is that they still are.
>
>> Reproductive health care means more than birth control.
>
> In the context of reducing the current estimate of population in 2050 it
> probably doesn't mean much more than birth control.

Yet, Bill Gates is interested in helping people in developing nations in
ways beyond just birth control.

Jeff

From: Citizen Jimserac on
On Feb 28, 4:49 pm, "john" <nos...(a)bt.com> wrote:
> http://www.whale.to/b/bill_gates1.html
>
> "If we do a really great job on vaccines, health care, reproductive health
> services, we could lower that [his initial 2050 global population projection
> of 9-billion] by perhaps about 10 to 15 percent." ---Bill Gates

There is ONLY ONE Bill Gates and he is THE SAME BILL GATES that he has
always been.

We MUST judge him based on the machinations, actions and alleged
illegalities of his company, Microsoft which has been the subject of
investigations, court actions, patent disputes and the imposition of
hundreds of millions of dollars in fines by the European courts. And
Anti-trust investigations in America. We are all familiar with
apparent machinations by Microsoft, which were successful, to kill off
the competing browser company, Netscape, by using the absurd premise
that Internet Explorer was an essential and integrated part of the
Microsoft operating system, which claim, by the way, underscores the
repeated apparent monopolization of certain areas of business software
by exploiting its once near monopoly on installed desktop operating
systems.

Therefore we must remain suspicious of his vaccine giveaway, consider
the tax savings and benefits that may accrue to his foundation and in
general remain sceptical of a supposed philanthropic organization
which is so focused on vaccines that it ignores the plight of a
hospital needing simple pumps, lab materials, antibiotics and other
every day drugs - said plight being ignored in Gates' foundation's
insane narrow focus on vaccines.

Note that these criticisms of Gates make no comment either pro or con
on the efficacy and safety of the vaccines, nor on the long term and
short term success or failure of their utilization. That is for
others to consider and either praise Gates' Foundation or else condemn
it..

The thing we need to call into question is the motivations of Gates
and perhaps see this as an attempt at self legitimization in the light
of his, in my opinion, underhanded and unsavory business tactics for
most of his career.
There is, of course, much more that is involved. Search for the LA
Times for articles investigating Gates and his foundation.

Citizen Jimserac
From: Peter Bowditch on
Mark Probert <mark.probert(a)gmail.com> wrote:

>On Feb 28, 9:30�pm, Mark Probert <mark.prob...(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>> > Dr. James R. Shannon, former director of the National institute of
>> > health declared, "the only safe vaccine is one that is never used."
>>
>> I have seen this "quote" before and I spent some time looking for
>> something that independently verifies that he actually said it and the
>> context it was taken from.
>>
>> So far, I cannot find anything.
>>
>> Anyone have any direct proof that it was said, and in what context?
>
>BTW, I suggest reading:
>
>http://www.nap.edu/readingroom.php?book=biomems&page=jshannon.html
>
>After reading this, can anyone intelligent person believe that he said
>what this bullcrap article says?
>
>I would have emailed him but, he is dead.
>
>This reminds me of how Peter Bowditch conclusively debunked the quote
>attributed to Pasteur.

I had a look at the Shannon "quote" as well. It seems to appear
nowhere except on anti-vaccination liar sites. I wonder why, if he
thought like that, he took on the job of responsibility for the NIH's
vaccination programs.

http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles/history/2007/11november.htm#24lies

--
Peter Bowditch aa #2243
The Millenium Project http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles
Australian Council Against Health Fraud http://www.acahf.org.au
To email me use my first name only at ratbags.com

Sponsor me in the World's Greatest Shave
http://my.imisfriendraising.com.au/personalPage.aspx?SID=88852
From: Jan Drew on
On Feb 28, 9:30�pm, Mark Probert <mark.prob...(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> > Dr. James R. Shannon, former director of the National institute of
> > health declared, "the only safe vaccine is one that is never used."
>
> I have seen this "quote" before and I spent some time looking for
> something that independently verifies that he actually said it and the
> context it was taken from.
>
> So far, I cannot find anything.
>
> Anyone have any direct proof that it was said, and in what context?

Try http://www.Google.com/
Results 1 - 10 of about 192,000 for Dr. James R. Shannon, former
director of the National institute of health. (0.18 seconds)

So much for Mark S Probert investigations skills.......