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From: SavedByZero on 9 Nov 2006 23:33
X-No-Archive:

Hi all,

Like space, Please Kill Me, and others I'm still trying to find my way. I did
reasonably well for some time. Got my B.S. in Math/Physics ( easy to keep a low
profile in college ), held two different jobs in which I was a computer
programmer and project manager for a small project and that also allowed me to
keep a low profile. I was actually quite successful. It was only when pressure
was applied to me to do more, attend meetings, get involved in marketing that I
just couldn't handle it. So, I quite my last significant job in 2002. There is
something called the "Peter Principle" from a book written by Laurence Peter in
the late 1960s, which I read many years ago. The Peter Principle states, more or
less, that in any hierarchy ( such as a place of employment ) a person rises to
their level of incompetence and they stay there since no one really wants to
demote you back to your highest level of competence. I guess I knew
instinctively that I was bumping that level of incompetence and I didn't want
the additional responsibility. I was at my highest level of competence IMO,
mostly due to my SPia, and I didn't want to be pushed further up in the
hierarchy. I'll bet that, after 4 full years, they have not found a single
person who could do all the types of computer programming that I did for them.
I'm not a genius or gifted in any way...I just worked very hard at what I did.

Now, I've moved back to my home town in Western NY. This is a very economically
depressed area and _any_ job is hard to find. Almost no tech type jobs. As for
non-tech jobs, one look at my work history and no one will touch me because they
think I'll leave ASAP. There is no place a leave to. I'm stuck here and, if I
must work, it can only be in a low-profile job.

I could retrain, but at 56 yo that makes little sense. Won't assure me of a job
in this area anyway.

At this point I'm about in the same situation that space is in. Bored to death.
Lonely since my High School friends that stayed in this area have their own
lives---I've been gone about 35 years so I just don't fit in anymore. They are
nice people, but I've been out in the world rather than living in the isolation
of this area, and I just don't fit in. People here are almost totally ignorant
of world events--no good newspapers locally. I'm used to the Washington Post or
NY Times. Not much we can talk about.

I'm just venting I guess. I turn up in this NG from time-to-time and am fairly
active, but then go through periods when I don't visit here at all. Still
haven't gotten around to fixing the NG FAQ, although it's in better shape than
it was when I first located it.

My main diversions are broadcast TV, music, reading, sleeping way too much. I
hope to start running again soon. I don't have neighbors very close by since I
live on a country road--fairly peaceful.

What to do with the remainder of my life? I guess I'll just continue to live in
isolation doing what I now do--not a very appealing thought but I don't feel as
if I have options or the energy to try anything.

There is a way out for all of us--sometimes changing anything in your life
helps. I had a great year after I quite drinking, but then fell ill.

Coming back to my home town has turned out about as I thought it would (as
above). So, to avoid the discomfort of seeing old friends I can't talk to, I go
to a nearby town for most things.

SBZ
From: space on 10 Nov 2006 05:00
X-No-Archive:

"SavedByZero" <SavedByZero(a)nowhere.net> wrote in message
news:SavedByZero-2BADD9.23364309112006(a)news.west.earthlink.net...
> X-No-Archive:
>
> Hi all,
>
> Like space, Please Kill Me, and others I'm still trying to find my way. I
did
> reasonably well for some time. Got my B.S. in Math/Physics ( easy to keep
a low
> profile in college ), held two different jobs in which I was a computer
> programmer and project manager for a small project and that also allowed
me to
> keep a low profile. I was actually quite successful. It was only when
pressure
> was applied to me to do more, attend meetings, get involved in marketing
that I
> just couldn't handle it. So, I quite my last significant job in 2002.
There is
> something called the "Peter Principle" from a book written by Laurence
Peter in
> the late 1960s, which I read many years ago. The Peter Principle states,
more or
> less, that in any hierarchy ( such as a place of employment ) a person
rises to
> their level of incompetence and they stay there since no one really wants
to
> demote you back to your highest level of competence. I guess I knew
> instinctively that I was bumping that level of incompetence and I didn't
want
> the additional responsibility. I was at my highest level of competence
IMO,
> mostly due to my SPia, and I didn't want to be pushed further up in the
> hierarchy. I'll bet that, after 4 full years, they have not found a single
> person who could do all the types of computer programming that I did for
them.
> I'm not a genius or gifted in any way...I just worked very hard at what I
did.
>
> Now, I've moved back to my home town in Western NY. This is a very
economically
> depressed area and _any_ job is hard to find. Almost no tech type jobs. As
for
> non-tech jobs, one look at my work history and no one will touch me
because they
> think I'll leave ASAP. There is no place a leave to. I'm stuck here and,
if I
> must work, it can only be in a low-profile job.
>
> I could retrain, but at 56 yo that makes little sense. Won't assure me of
a job
> in this area anyway.
>
> At this point I'm about in the same situation that space is in. Bored to
death.
> Lonely since my High School friends that stayed in this area have their
own
> lives---I've been gone about 35 years so I just don't fit in anymore. They
are
> nice people, but I've been out in the world rather than living in the
isolation
> of this area, and I just don't fit in. People here are almost totally
ignorant
> of world events--no good newspapers locally. I'm used to the Washington
Post or
> NY Times. Not much we can talk about.
>
> I'm just venting I guess. I turn up in this NG from time-to-time and am
fairly
> active, but then go through periods when I don't visit here at all. Still
> haven't gotten around to fixing the NG FAQ, although it's in better shape
than
> it was when I first located it.
>
> My main diversions are broadcast TV, music, reading, sleeping way too
much. I
> hope to start running again soon. I don't have neighbors very close by
since I
> live on a country road--fairly peaceful.
>
> What to do with the remainder of my life? I guess I'll just continue to
live in
> isolation doing what I now do--not a very appealing thought but I don't
feel as
> if I have options or the energy to try anything.
>
> There is a way out for all of us--sometimes changing anything in your life
> helps. I had a great year after I quite drinking, but then fell ill.
>
> Coming back to my home town has turned out about as I thought it would (as
> above). So, to avoid the discomfort of seeing old friends I can't talk to,
I go
> to a nearby town for most things.
>
> SBZ

Your "Peter Principle" made me smile, this explains why every service never
runs as it should maybe!

I am useless at advice on the subject of SP, I can't think of anything
constructive to say. SP is just so damn debilitating, it wrecks your life
and without it I'm sure we would all be in a different place in life than we
are now.


From: John Sheppard on 29 Nov 2006 05:31

X-No-Archive:
>>
>> For what its worth, im a computer progammer too.
>>
>> At one stage I ran my own business, got very obsessive over it, I very
>> much neglected any form of marketing in favour of logistics. I was
>> forced to deal with customers and to a certain level I got used to it,
>> but a great majority of the time I hung up the phone with unclarified
>> orders because I was too scared to slow down and ask twice.
>>
>> I personally dont think programming is a healthy job for anxious people
>> (if for anyone at all, I know more burnouts than I do successful
>> people). As much as I love programming, Im seriously considering
>> becoming a labourer, its hard to turn my back on 15 years knowledge
>> though. Im 29.
>
<snip>
>
> John, 29 is still very young. Get out now. There's a reason whay very few
> people in the technical end of the business are over 40. I went back to
> school at 32 but made the huge mistake of not persuing that career.
> Unless
> you get filthy rich along the way--which will NOT happen programming--you
> have another 35-40 years of working life (probably 40 with the SSI
> situation in your age group). Do something you like. Something that
> doesn't
> change and fluctuation every ten minutes.

Yeah, getting out seams like a wise course of action, I may have the option
to go into the business area somehow. I dont know if that will be just as
bad or not. Programming is where my passion lies, but I tire of the constant
change. I guess to me a basic manual labour jobs seam appealing as there is
not much thought required so anxiety is minimum. Labourer jobs gererally
require alot of interaction with people though. I do believe though that if
I didnt go into programming to begin with I would have grown out of some
social anxieties long ago.

But yeah, pretty much everything screams at me that IT not a good place to
be. My biggest problem with IT is that I never feel comfortable with the
knowledge I have, its constantly anxiety producing, I dont think I could
ever say for sure, yep I can do that. Paradoxicly thats why im quiet good at
my job.

The other thing with IT is that I find it makes me very withdrawn, I come
home and rather than wanting to talk to anyone id rather be figuring out
bugs/algorythms etc. Im not sure if its my personality or the job that makes
me obsessive like that. Its a mixture of both I guess, and its easier to
change career than personality (I think, could be wrong about that).

John


From: OceanView on 30 Nov 2006 11:14
"John Sheppard" <nospam(a)nospam.com> wrote in
news:12mqocciahe9557(a)corp.supernews.com:

>
> X-No-Archive:
>>>
>>> For what its worth, im a computer progammer too.
>>>
>>> At one stage I ran my own business, got very obsessive over it, I very
>>> much neglected any form of marketing in favour of logistics. I was
>>> forced to deal with customers and to a certain level I got used to it,
>>> but a great majority of the time I hung up the phone with unclarified
>>> orders because I was too scared to slow down and ask twice.
>>>
>>> I personally dont think programming is a healthy job for anxious
>>> people (if for anyone at all, I know more burnouts than I do
>>> successful people). As much as I love programming, Im seriously
>>> considering becoming a labourer, its hard to turn my back on 15 years
>>> knowledge though. Im 29.
>>
> <snip>
>>
>> John, 29 is still very young. Get out now. There's a reason whay very
>> few people in the technical end of the business are over 40. I went
>> back to school at 32 but made the huge mistake of not persuing that
>> career. Unless
>> you get filthy rich along the way--which will NOT happen
>> programming--you have another 35-40 years of working life (probably 40
>> with the SSI situation in your age group). Do something you like.
>> Something that doesn't
>> change and fluctuation every ten minutes.
>
> Yeah, getting out seams like a wise course of action, I may have the
> option to go into the business area somehow. I dont know if that will be
> just as bad or not. Programming is where my passion lies, but I tire of
> the constant change. I guess to me a basic manual labour jobs seam
> appealing as there is not much thought required so anxiety is minimum.
> Labourer jobs gererally require alot of interaction with people though.
> I do believe though that if I didnt go into programming to begin with I
> would have grown out of some social anxieties long ago.
>
> But yeah, pretty much everything screams at me that IT not a good place
> to be. My biggest problem with IT is that I never feel comfortable with
> the knowledge I have, its constantly anxiety producing, I dont think I
> could ever say for sure, yep I can do that. Paradoxicly thats why im
> quiet good at my job.
>
> The other thing with IT is that I find it makes me very withdrawn, I
> come home and rather than wanting to talk to anyone id rather be
> figuring out bugs/algorythms etc. Im not sure if its my personality or
> the job that makes me obsessive like that. Its a mixture of both I
> guess, and its easier to change career than personality (I think, could
> be wrong about that).
>
> John
>
>

I think your assessments are pretty much on target. It's a good career, for
a while, for those of us who don't enjoy a lot of social interaction. It
is, however, a high-burnout career and one that's suited for people in
their 20's. If you don't want to deal much with people, don't have a social
life, don't mind working nights and weekends (a lot), like hbeen forced
over and over to learn new material as a faster and faster pace and want to
make a decent living (for a while) then this is for you. (The "make a
decent living" part isn't quite true anymore. Salaries have dropped
dramatically in this business and will likely continue to do so.)

All this, however, does keep us in the problem. We don;t learn how to do
other things when we're stuck in a cube hunched over a keyboard all day.
I've literally gone entire days without the need to speak to anybody.

You're probably like me in that you had the aptitude and interst to get
goos at it at a time when there was a desparate need. Janet Ruhl, who
wrote the "Computer Consultant's Handbook" and others, says basicially the
need to be constantly updated is why most of leave the field. It just gets
too tedious and exhausting.
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