From: Mark Thorson on 11 Oct 2009 14:49
"trigonometry1972(a)gmail.com |" wrote:
> And as to vitamin E interfering in drug
> metabolism, it is the tocopherol form that
> is the most active when compare to tocotrienol
> in altering drug metabolism according to some research
> and it takes a really whopping dose in this animal model.
> PMID: 15649653
The tocopherol forms do not activate the SXR
receptor and the cascade of xenobiotic clearance
mechanisms it controls. The tocotrienols do
activate SXR, and that is why they are a risk.
If you don't understand that, you are completely
clueless with regard to the hazard of taking
tocotrienols. And that's precisely why you need
to be protected from yourself. Even if you don't
want this protection, there's lots of other people
who might believe the line used to sell tocotrienols
who do need this protection. Tocotrienols inevitably
will cause considerable mischief if made widely
available to the public.
From: Happy Oyster on 11 Oct 2009 14:48
On Sun, 11 Oct 2009 11:40:44 -0700, Bob Officer <bobofficers(a)127.0.0.7> wrote:
>On Sat, 10 Oct 2009 21:30:44 -0700 (PDT), in misc.health.alternative,
>Jan Drew <jdrew63929(a)aol.com> wrote:
>>On Oct 10, 1:06?am, Happy Oyster <happy.oys...(a)ariplex.com> wrote:
>>> On Fri, 9 Oct 2009 22:00:02 -0700 (PDT), "trigonometry1...(a)gmail.com |"
>>> <trigonometry1...(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>>> >> 3. Requirement that there be some standard of efficacy.
>>> >> For starters.
>>> >The last requirement is evil, wicked, and corrupt
>>> >when one looks how the EU is doing it regulation of
>>> >supplements. It is all to easy for government to
>>> >deny, drag their feet, and ignore the science and
>>> >then demand excessive levels of evidence and/or
>>Posts up to 703 in 10 days.
>Jan, who else cares?
>Not his admin, because no matter how many complaints you make, it
>seems that they are ignoring you whines.
>Stop trying to be a fucked up control freak, and go back to being
>just fucked up, please.
She cannot. A person, who is so damned stupid, that she cannot count to 2, CAN
NOT act logically.
Or course, it would be much better if she had the habit of banging her had to
the wall. But, perhaps she did that all the decades before, who knows?
Bloomington, Indiana, and it's silent moments...
From: Existential Angst on 11 Oct 2009 15:13
"Mark Thorson" <nospam(a)sonic.net> wrote in message
> "trigonometry1972(a)gmail.com |" wrote:
>> And as to vitamin E interfering in drug
>> metabolism, it is the tocopherol form that
>> is the most active when compare to tocotrienol
>> in altering drug metabolism according to some research
>> and it takes a really whopping dose in this animal model.
>> PMID: 15649653
> The tocopherol forms do not activate the SXR
> receptor and the cascade of xenobiotic clearance
> mechanisms it controls. The tocotrienols do
> activate SXR, and that is why they are a risk.
> If you don't understand that, you are completely
> clueless with regard to the hazard of taking
> tocotrienols. And that's precisely why you need
> to be protected from yourself. Even if you don't
> want this protection, there's lots of other people
> who might believe the line used to sell tocotrienols
> who do need this protection. Tocotrienols inevitably
> will cause considerable mischief if made widely
> available to the public.
Sounds like this "mischief" can be used to good advantage, if strategized
Xenophobia is not nec a bad thing.
Thus, Trig's point about who the real "culprit" is (drugs or trienols)
From: Bob Officer on 11 Oct 2009 15:42
On Sun, 11 Oct 2009 04:21:18 -0700 (PDT), in misc.health.alternative,
"trigonometry1972(a)gmail.com |" <trigonometry1972(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>> Derived from chicken sternum cartilage, UC-II consists of undenatured
>> (native) type II collagen, a revolutionary new dietary ingredient that
>> works with the immune system to promote healthy joints and increase
>> joint mobility and flexibility (FDA-notified and published new dietary
>> ingredient).* Supported by six human clinical studies, including
>> research at Harvard University Medical School, UC-II is the only
>> source of undenatured Type II Collagen available as a powdered, shelf
>> stable dietary ingredient (U.S. patents pending). Recognized to
>> improve joint mobility, flexibility and promotes healthy joints
>> Revitalizing Blend:
>> Bromelain - Classified as an herb, bromelain is a sulfur-containing
>> proteolytic digestive enzyme that is extracted from the stem and the
>> fruit of the pineapple plant (Ananas comosus, family Bromeliaceae).
>> Bromelain is believed to be as effective as some commonly used
>> nonsteroidal anti-inflammatory (NSAID) medications (such as ibuprofen
>> and diclofenac) for reducing pain associated with osteoarthritis.
>> Similarly, studies suggest that bromelain may also help reduce the
>> pain associated with rheumatoid arthritis.
>> Research indicates that long-standing use of bromelain is helpful in
>> the treatment for other connective tissue disorders including
>> scleroderma, bursitis, and tendonitis. Bromelain is useful in the
>> treatment of a wide range of conditions, but it is particularly
>> effective in relieving inflammation associated with infection and
>> physical injuries
>> Papain - Papain is a proteolytic ("protein digesting") enzyme this is
>> produced by extracting techniques from the unripe papaya (pawpaw).
>> It's natural and safe. Papain is used to relieve inflammation and to
>> improve healing. Additionally, it is being studied for relief of
>> cancer therapy side effects and rheumatoid arthritis.
>> Boswellia - Boswellia is an Ayurvedic plant that contains anti-
>> inflammatory triterpenoids called boswellic acids. Boswellic acid and
>> its derivatives have anti-inflammation. properties as it inhibits
>> proinflammatory 5-lipoxygenase chemicals and blocks leukotriene
>> Feverfew - Feverfew ( Tanacetum parthenium ), a member of the
>> sunflower family, has been used for centuries in Europe as a remedy
>> for headaches, arthritis, and inflammation. Recent laboratory studies
>> have shown that feverfew can reduce inflammation and prevent blood
>> vessel constriction.
>> Cayenne - Cayenne pepper (also called Capsicum frutescens) is a
>> stimulating herb made from the dried pods of chili peppers and is used
>> as both a medicinal and nutritional herb. It is a very high source of
>> vitamins and is rich in organic calcium and potassium. Widely
>> recognized today for improving circulation, stimulating blood flow and
>> reliving chronic pain.
>> Turmeric (Curcuma longa)- is a rhizomatous herbaceous perennial plant.
>> Recent findings from animal and laboratory studies support that a
>> chemical found in turmeric provides anti-inflammatory and anticancer
>> properties. It contains a mixture or powerful phytonutrients known as
>> curcuminoids which posses anti-inflammatory properties seen to benefit
>> joint and connective tissue health. A recent issue of Arthritis &
>> Rheumatism, highlighted a published study showing the effectiveness of
>> Curcumin in the reduction of joint inflammation, and recommended
>> clinical trials for the treatment of arthritis.
>Hello, looks like you have a list of things for
>inflammation and arthritis. I assume these
>are proposed low hanging fruit so to speak.
>Bowellia is good stuff and pretty gentle on the stomach.
>Feverfew has rather NSAID like adverse risk profile
>so I avoid it.
>I live on curcumin or should a say turmeric.
>One of the Marks made a comment about
>tocotrienols. And it made me good back
>and look at the research especially recent
>research a good thing to do now and then.
>I am going to increase my dose by several
>fold. I won't replace all my high gamma
>mixed tocopherols with but it looks like
>it has bang for buck. There is reason
>to believe tocotrienols should be
>really good in the context of inflammation
>And high EPA/DHA should be in the list.
>And thanks for bring up the pineapple enzyme.
>That is one I should experiment with.
>MSM also great supplement with relatively
>quick results on the order of a couple of
>weeks provided the dose is high enough.
>For some niacin and niacinamide in high
>dose can be hugely helpful though it
>can become toxic after prolonged use.
>Therefore having a good Doc experienced
>with it and the liver tests one should take
>would be a good thing.
>I suppose the point your making is that
>some of these are low hanging fruit
>if the government ever gets around to
>testing some of these materials in clincal
>studies. The problem is that it is possible
>to design experiments to fail. By way
>of the use of too few interventions, too
>low of dose, in the wrong conditions,
>failing monitor blood levels and dosage
>compliance, inferior forms such racemic
>vitamin E or isolated form vitamin E
>rrr-alpha E instead all from alpha, beta,
>gamma, and delta. Not mention that
>tocotrienols are often the clear winners
>over tocopherol for some things.
The real problem with herbal based self medication is the variability
of dosage. The plants at different stages of maturity will contain
differing amounts of active substances. Indeed, the amount of active
substance can vary from leaf to leaf on the same plant. There is no
standardization of dosage using herbal plants. Now add in seasonal,
and yearly changes and you have a complete recipe for a health
Even the method of cooking a herb can make it more deadly.
Take a look at a common plant like the Rhubarb sometime.
The Stems are eatable. The leaves contain oxalic acid. Cooking the
leaves with a soda actually increases the toxicity of the leaves.
Using the roots can act as a powerful laxative.
The leaves are suspected to also contain senna glycoside
The same active compound found in Bemchi which is really not
effective as a treatment for anything except life.
This sugary tasting compound, senna glycoside, is found in this
common herbal remedy,Bawchi, is actually Psorolea corylifolia, it
will strip water from the persons system and slowly poisons the their
system. Long term use will cause permanent loss of kidney function
and death. It was used briefly as a natural dietary weight lose
supplement in the mid 70s.
>eating more of the chicken than most......Trig
Posting the truth
From: Mark Probert on 11 Oct 2009 20:36
On Oct 11, 12:05 am, Jan Drew <jdrew63...(a)aol.com> wrote:
> On Oct 9, 4:29 pm, Mark Probert <mark.prob...(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Oct 9, 3:48 pm, "trigonometry1...(a)gmail.com |"
> > <trigonometry1...(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> > > On Oct 9, 12:28 pm, Mark Thorson <nos...(a)sonic.net> wrote:
> > > > Excellent article in New England Journal of Medicine
> > > > about contamination in the severly underregulated
> > > > dietary supplements business. Many products contain
> > > > dangerous, unapproved drugs, and yet the public is
> > > > largely unaware how bad the situation is. A majority
> > > > of the public and even a third of medical students
> > > > wrongly believe that supplements have to be approved
> > > > by a government agency.
> > > >http://healthcarereform.nejm.org/?p=2017&query=home
> > > > The dietary supplement industry is a dirty business,
> > > > sorely in need of reform.
> > > Ha unapproved drugs they call them. I'll bet
> > > they include alot of perfectly safe ingredients
> > > in their list of "unapproved drugs,"
> > > I wouldn't trust most proposed reforms other than
> > > perhaps a bit more funding and monitoring to prevent
> > > pharma drugs and toxics being slipped in by
> > > crooks.
> > I would like to see:
> > 1. Mandatory reporting of all adverse events, lawsuits, etc.
> > 2. Complete disclosure of all ingredients, and banning the term
> > "Proprietary bland" etc.
> > 3. Requirement that there be some standard of efficacy.
> > For starters.
Several of the products listed on this page contain "proprietary
blend". Thus, you are playing Russian Roulette with your health.
You may recall that there have been some professional sports figures
who were surprised to find that they had taken banned substances. On
at least two occasions, they used OTC supplements with "proprietary
I know a trainer for one of NY's professional teams, and he constantly
warns players about "proprietary blend."
From the website:
"Proprietary Bland of New Zealand Marine Extracts
Dog Pain Away® contains a unique blend of native marine extracts found
off the coast of New Zealand. These naturally occurring marine
compounds have a powerful impact to enhance connective tissue, tendons
Note that I would not give "proprietary blend" to a dog.