From: Mark Probert on
On Oct 12, 9:08 pm, PeterB <p...(a)mytrashmail.com> wrote:
> On Oct 12, 2:18 pm, Mark Probert <mark.prob...(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Oct 12, 12:43 pm, PeterB <p...(a)mytrashmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > On Oct 10, 10:29 pm, Mark Probert <mark.prob...(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > On Oct 10, 1:00 am, "trigonometry1...(a)gmail.com |"
>
> > > > <trigonometry1...(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > On Oct 9, 1:29 pm, Mark Probert <mark.prob...(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > > On Oct 9, 3:48 pm, "trigonometry1...(a)gmail.com |"
>
> > > > > > <trigonometry1...(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > On Oct 9, 12:28 pm, Mark Thorson <nos...(a)sonic.net> wrote:
>
> > > > > > > > Excellent article in New England Journal of Medicine
> > > > > > > > about contamination in the severly underregulated
> > > > > > > > dietary supplements business.  Many products contain
> > > > > > > > dangerous, unapproved drugs, and yet the public is
> > > > > > > > largely unaware how bad the situation is.  A majority
> > > > > > > > of the public and even a third of medical students
> > > > > > > > wrongly believe that supplements have to be approved
> > > > > > > > by a government agency.
>
> > > > > > > >http://healthcarereform.nejm.org/?p=2017&query=home
>
> > > > > > > > The dietary supplement industry is a dirty business,
> > > > > > > > sorely in need of reform.
>
> > > > > > > Ha unapproved drugs they call them. I'll bet
> > > > > > > they include alot of perfectly safe ingredients
> > > > > > > in their list of "unapproved drugs,"
> > > > > > > I wouldn't trust most proposed reforms other than
> > > > > > > perhaps a bit more funding and monitoring to prevent
> > > > > > > pharma drugs and toxics being slipped in by
> > > > > > > crooks.
>
> > > > > > I would like to see:
>
> > > > > > 1. Mandatory reporting of all adverse events, lawsuits, etc.
>
> > > > > > 2. Complete disclosure of all ingredients, and banning the term
> > > > > > "Proprietary bland" etc.
>
> > > > > > 3. Requirement that there be some standard of efficacy.
>
> > > > > > For starters.
>
> > > > > The last requirement is evil, wicked, and corrupt
> > > > > when one looks how the EU is doing it regulation of
> > > > > supplements.
>
> > > > I usully try to ignore the EU since there is enough action here.
>
> > > > It is all to easy for government to
>
> > > > > deny, drag their feet, and ignore the science and
> > > > > then demand excessive levels of evidence and/or
> > > > > wring their hands about safety to the point of
> > > > > absolute stupidity.
>
> > > > That is precisely what the FDA wrt Thalidomide.
>
> > > > > Vitamins and nutrients are not drugs.
>
> > > > However, when medical claims are made, they have to be substantiated
> > > > by something more than saleshype.
>
> > > > > Understand putting something on the market without
> > > > > a clear claim should be an option as well.
>
> > > > Caveat emptor.
>
> > > > > I do agree their should be full content disclosure.
> > > > > And I believe the US FDA already has the power on that
> > > > > point if they chose to exercise it.
>
> > > > No, they do not. I have had this issue with the FDA and FTC and
> > > > they do not have it.
>
> > > FDA may not have unique enforcement over supplements, but they have
> > > the power to warn the public about products (herbs, for instance) they
> > > consider potentially harmful.  For example, Kava.   Why isn't FDA
> > > warning about more than a tiny percentage of supplements?  
>
> > Most supplements are "do nothings", thus neither harmful or
> > beneficial for most people. The FDA, wisely, stays out of this
> > quagmire.
>
> False.  Most dietary supplements are designed to improve overall
> nutritional status and do so.  The term "do nothing" more aptly
> describes prescription drugs which, except for their ability to cause
> dangerous side effects, fail to treat or prevent almost any disease.
> If I'm wrong, where is the published evidence?  Oh, that's right.  You
> don't believe in the medical literature.
>
> > > It's because, despite decades of use by the public, there is little
> > > evidence of harm exceeding low-level allergic reactions in the vast
> > > majority of such products.  Even Kava is not proven to be harmful in
> > > isolation from pre-existing hepatic disease or the use of alcohol.  As
> > > for FTC, it's scope of powers combined with DSHEA does provide a
> > > framework for safety that has been working just fine.   Your sponsors
> > > may not like it, but that's too bad.
>
> > >http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med/msg/f569f86c8ed22f4e-
>
> > Prove I have sponsors. Oh, that is right, I gave you the opportunity
> > to do so, and make some money while doing it, and you weaseled
> > out of it.
>
> Your own words prove it.  As someone famously once said, "You cannot
> serve two masters."

Correct. I serve the truth.

Now, prove I have any other motivation.

Cue the weaseling.

From: PeterB on
On Oct 9, 4:30 pm, Mark Probert <mark.prob...(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> On Oct 9, 4:11 pm, "trigonometry1...(a)gmail.com |"
>
>
>
> <trigonometry1...(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Oct 9, 1:01 pm, catherine hoffman <choffman0...(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > On Oct 9, 12:28 pm, Mark Thorson <nos...(a)sonic.net> wrote:
>
> > > > Excellent article in New England Journal of Medicine
> > > > about contamination in the severly underregulated
> > > > dietary supplements business.  Many products contain
> > > > dangerous, unapproved drugs, and yet the public is
> > > > largely unaware how bad the situation is.  A majority
> > > > of the public and even a third of medical students
> > > > wrongly believe that supplements have to be approved
> > > > by a government agency.
>
> > > >http://healthcarereform.nejm.org/?p=2017&query=home
>
> > > > The dietary supplement industry is a dirty business,
> > > > sorely in need of reform.
>
> > > WoW!,
> > > I know quite a bit about the FDA, but I didn't know that they did not
> > > regulate the supplements. Is that also true for MLM companies?
>
> > Its not they don't have enough authority rather they choose
> > not to enforce it.
>
> Incorrect. They do not have enough authority. DSHEA.

FDA has more power than it knows what to do with. Correction: FDA
knows more about power than it knows what to do.
From: Peter B. on

"PeterB" <pkm(a)mytrashmail.com> wrote in message
news:b44f14e7-d060-4a0e-831d-7ca016bf7d08(a)v25g2000yqk.googlegroups.com...
On Oct 9, 4:30 pm, Mark Probert <mark.prob...(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> On Oct 9, 4:11 pm, "trigonometry1...(a)gmail.com |"
>
>
>
> <trigonometry1...(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Oct 9, 1:01 pm, catherine hoffman <choffman0...(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > On Oct 9, 12:28 pm, Mark Thorson <nos...(a)sonic.net> wrote:
>
> > > > Excellent article in New England Journal of Medicine
> > > > about contamination in the severly underregulated
> > > > dietary supplements business. Many products contain
> > > > dangerous, unapproved drugs, and yet the public is
> > > > largely unaware how bad the situation is. A majority
> > > > of the public and even a third of medical students
> > > > wrongly believe that supplements have to be approved
> > > > by a government agency.
>
> > > >http://healthcarereform.nejm.org/?p=2017&query=home
>
> > > > The dietary supplement industry is a dirty business,
> > > > sorely in need of reform.
>
> > > WoW!,
> > > I know quite a bit about the FDA, but I didn't know that they did
> > > not
> > > regulate the supplements. Is that also true for MLM companies?
>
> > Its not they don't have enough authority rather they choose
> > not to enforce it.
>
> Incorrect. They do not have enough authority. DSHEA.

FDA has more power than it knows what to do with. Correction: FDA
knows more about power than it knows what to do.
=================================================
Are you "t"'s sockpuppet?


From: PeterB on
On Oct 12, 2:13 pm, Mark Probert <mark.prob...(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> On Oct 12, 10:14 am, "trigonometry1...(a)gmail.com |"
>
>
>
> <trigonometry1...(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Oct 12, 5:00 am, "t" <tool...(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > "Mark Probert" <mark.prob...(a)gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> > >news:e8cac353-a30a-41ea-8c30-65b59a632ae6(a)f10g2000vbf.googlegroups.com....
> > > On Oct 11, 12:13 am, Jan Drew <jdrew63...(a)aol.com> wrote:
>
> > > > On Oct 9, 4:30 pm, Mark Probert <mark.prob...(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > On Oct 9, 4:11 pm, "trigonometry1...(a)gmail.com |"
>
> > > > > <trigonometry1...(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > On Oct 9, 1:01 pm, catherine hoffman <choffman0...(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > > > On Oct 9, 12:28 pm, Mark Thorson <nos...(a)sonic.net> wrote:
>
> > > > > > > > Excellent article in New England Journal of Medicine
> > > > > > > > about contamination in the severly underregulated
> > > > > > > > dietary supplements business. Many products contain
> > > > > > > > dangerous, unapproved drugs, and yet the public is
> > > > > > > > largely unaware how bad the situation is. A majority
> > > > > > > > of the public and even a third of medical students
> > > > > > > > wrongly believe that supplements have to be approved
> > > > > > > > by a government agency.
>
> > > > > > > >http://healthcarereform.nejm.org/?p=2017&query=home
>
> > > > > > > > The dietary supplement industry is a dirty business,
> > > > > > > > sorely in need of reform.
>
> > > > > > > WoW!,
> > > > > > > I know quite a bit about the FDA, but I didn't know that they did
> > > > > > > not
> > > > > > > regulate the supplements. Is that also true for MLM companies?
>
> > > > > > Its not they don't have enough authority rather they choose
> > > > > > not to enforce it.
>
> > > > > Incorrect. They do not have enough authority. DSHEA.
>
> > > >http://www.naturalnews.com/z008269_health_medicine_organized_medicine...
>
> > > > Why organized medicine wants to outlaw nutrition and turn healers into
> > > > criminals
> > > > by Mike Adams, the Health Ranger, NaturalNews Editor
>
> > > No one wants to outlaw nutrition.
> > > Prove it.
>
> > But some want it to know its place. LOL
> > There are those who would suppress freedom of
> > speech on topic here in the States.
>
> The claim has been made, i.e. that organized medicine, that fictitious
> entity, wants to outlaw nutrition.
>
> I want to see actual proof of this claim.
>
> Note that if Mikey Adams said the sky was blue, I would schedule a
> visit with my ophthalmologist to get my eyes checked. AFAIAC, he and
> his henchmen are liars to the core, and to the Corps.

Why should it matter what you think when you can't answer any question
put to you honestly? You claim to have read books on medical science
but refuse to list them. What are you hiding, mr pharmnut?


From: Jan Drew on
On Oct 11, 3:13�pm, "Existential Angst" <UNfit...(a)UNoptonline.net>
wrote:
> "Mark Thorson" <nos...(a)sonic.net> wrote in message
>
> news:4AD228D2.C51B845A(a)sonic.net...
>
>
>
>
>
> > "trigonometry1...(a)gmail.com |" wrote:
>
> >> And as to vitamin E interfering in drug
> >> metabolism, it is the tocopherol form that
> >> is the most active when compare to tocotrienol
> >> in altering drug metabolism according to some research
> >> and it takes a really whopping dose in this animal model.
> >> PMID: 15649653
>
> > The tocopherol forms do not activate the SXR
> > receptor and the cascade of xenobiotic clearance
> > mechanisms it controls. �The tocotrienols do
> > activate SXR, and that is why they are a risk.
>
> > If you don't understand that, you are completely
> > clueless with regard to the hazard of taking
> > tocotrienols. �And that's precisely why you need
> > to be protected from yourself. �Even if you don't
> > want this protection, there's lots of other people
> > who might believe the line used to sell tocotrienols
> > who do need this protection. �Tocotrienols inevitably
> > will cause considerable mischief if made widely
> > available to the public.
>
> Sounds like this "mischief" can be used to good advantage, if strategized
> correctly.
> Xenophobia is not nec a bad thing.
> Thus, Trig's point about who the real "culprit" is (drugs or trienols)
> remains valid.
> --
> EA

Path: g2news2.google.com!news1.google.com!
border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!
nx01.iad01.newshosting.com!newshosting.com!69.16.185.51.MISMATCH!tmp-
post01.iad!news.highwinds-media.com!news.cv.net!not-for-mail
From: "Existential Angst" <UNfit...(a)UNoptonline.net>
Newsgroups: sci.med.nutrition,misc.health.alternative
References: <4ACF8EF5.3BF7F87D(a)sonic.net> <4da8b11a-
d99e-49b4-9d42-4daeaafff4ba(a)e4g2000prn.googlegroups.com>
<44df070c-9e1d-434c-9968-11c7d58294ab(a)p15g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
<aa44fbda-9e3b-48a8-a651-399c60058fd0(a)k13g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
<mh50d5578vce00k6f2mhv4t3irpneukgcb(a)4ax.com>
<b1064e18-6fab-4010-8897-75c6072d9210(a)m7g2000prd.googlegroups.com>
<4AD0D767.9469B816(a)sonic.net> <713041cc-351b-421e-b13c-
fe7cbcc4b14d(a)o9g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
<4AD228D2.C51B845A(a)sonic.net>
Subject: Re: American Roulette -- Contaminated Dietary Supplements
Date: Sun, 11 Oct 2009 15:13:48 -0400
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"Mark Thorson" <nos...(a)sonic.net> wrote in message
news:4AD228D2.C51B845A(a)sonic.net...
> "trigonometry1...(a)gmail.com |" wrote:
>>
>> And as to vitamin E interfering in drug
>> metabolism, it is the tocopherol form that
>> is the most active when compare to tocotrienol
>> in altering drug metabolism according to some research
>> and it takes a really whopping dose in this animal model.
>> PMID: 15649653
>
> The tocopherol forms do not activate the SXR
> receptor and the cascade of xenobiotic clearance
> mechanisms it controls. The tocotrienols do
> activate SXR, and that is why they are a risk.
>
> If you don't understand that, you are completely
> clueless with regard to the hazard of taking
> tocotrienols. And that's precisely why you need
> to be protected from yourself. Even if you don't
> want this protection, there's lots of other people
> who might believe the line used to sell tocotrienols
> who do need this protection. Tocotrienols inevitably
> will cause considerable mischief if made widely
> available to the public.

Sounds like this "mischief" can be used to good advantage, if
strategized
correctly.
Xenophobia is not nec a bad thing.
Thus, Trig's point about who the real "culprit" is (drugs or
trienols)
remains valid.
--
EA



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