From: trigonometry1972 on
On Oct 12, 11:13 am, Mark Probert <mark.prob...(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> On Oct 12, 10:14 am, "trigonometry1...(a)gmail.com |"
>
>
>
> <trigonometry1...(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Oct 12, 5:00 am, "t" <tool...(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > "Mark Probert" <mark.prob...(a)gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> > >news:e8cac353-a30a-41ea-8c30-65b59a632ae6(a)f10g2000vbf.googlegroups.com....
> > > On Oct 11, 12:13 am, Jan Drew <jdrew63...(a)aol.com> wrote:
>
> > > > On Oct 9, 4:30 pm, Mark Probert <mark.prob...(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > On Oct 9, 4:11 pm, "trigonometry1...(a)gmail.com |"
>
> > > > > <trigonometry1...(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > On Oct 9, 1:01 pm, catherine hoffman <choffman0...(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > > > On Oct 9, 12:28 pm, Mark Thorson <nos...(a)sonic.net> wrote:
>
> > > > > > > > Excellent article in New England Journal of Medicine
> > > > > > > > about contamination in the severly underregulated
> > > > > > > > dietary supplements business. Many products contain
> > > > > > > > dangerous, unapproved drugs, and yet the public is
> > > > > > > > largely unaware how bad the situation is. A majority
> > > > > > > > of the public and even a third of medical students
> > > > > > > > wrongly believe that supplements have to be approved
> > > > > > > > by a government agency.
>
> > > > > > > >http://healthcarereform.nejm.org/?p=2017&query=home
>
> > > > > > > > The dietary supplement industry is a dirty business,
> > > > > > > > sorely in need of reform.
>
> > > > > > > WoW!,
> > > > > > > I know quite a bit about the FDA, but I didn't know that they did
> > > > > > > not
> > > > > > > regulate the supplements. Is that also true for MLM companies?
>
> > > > > > Its not they don't have enough authority rather they choose
> > > > > > not to enforce it.
>
> > > > > Incorrect. They do not have enough authority. DSHEA.
>
> > > >http://www.naturalnews.com/z008269_health_medicine_organized_medicine...
>
> > > > Why organized medicine wants to outlaw nutrition and turn healers into
> > > > criminals
> > > > by Mike Adams, the Health Ranger, NaturalNews Editor
>
> > > No one wants to outlaw nutrition.
> > > Prove it.
>
> > But some want it to know its place. LOL
> > There are those who would suppress freedom of
> > speech on topic here in the States.
>
> The claim has been made, i.e. that organized medicine, that fictitious
> entity, wants to outlaw nutrition.
>
> I want to see actual proof of this claim.
>
> Note that if Mikey Adams said the sky was blue, I would schedule a
> visit with my ophthalmologist to get my eyes checked. AFAIAC, he and
> his henchmen are liars to the core, and to the Corps.

It is an overstatement. He well could be a denizen of the MHA
except he found a way for his efforts to pay a little bit perhaps.
Maybe all of us here should have a commercial websites
to pop off on.
From: Happy Oyster on
On Mon, 12 Oct 2009 00:09:55 -0700 (PDT), "trigonometry1972(a)gmail.com |"
<trigonometry1972(a)gmail.com> wrote:

>Did a posting get cross threaded? Oh Well.

Yes, the damned editor is hard to read on a tiny screen.


>We do know who the German is don't we ;-)

I don't know. All I can say is that I use a titanium keyboard with plasma beam
energizers. ;O)
--
Interview mit dem Autor der "Reimbibel"
Kultur und Wissen
Ausl�ser war der Besuch von Benedikt XVI. in Auschwitz-Birkenau
http://www.nrhz.de/flyer/beitrag.php?id=14183
From: trigonometry1972 on
On Oct 12, 10:53 am, Mark Thorson <nos...(a)sonic.net> wrote:
> "trigonometry1...(a)gmail.com |" wrote:
>
> > Tocotrienols are safe at semi-reasonable levels and with
> > just a little discretion. It certainly no reason to ban them.
> > Though they may not play well with some of your drugs.
> > By the way why you aren't citing any references rather
> > than just asserting.
>
> I've posted this before.  Note this is in humans.
> Although animals usually are good models for many
> systems, they are not a good model for xenobiotic
> clearance mechanisms, because the receptor networks
> differ even between humans and other primates.
>
> Drug Metab Dispos. 2004 Oct;32(10):1075-82.
> Tocotrienols activate the steroid and xenobiotic
> receptor, SXR, and selectively regulate expression
> of its target genes.
> Zhou C, Tabb MM, Sadatrafiei A, Grun F, Blumberg B.
> Department of Developmental and Cell Biology,
> University of California, 5205 McGaugh Hall,
> Irvine, CA 92697-2300, USA.
>
> Vitamin E is an essential nutrient with antioxidant
> activity. Vitamin E is comprised of eight members,
> alpha-, beta-, gamma-, and delta-tocopherols and
> alpha-, beta-, gamma-, and delta-tocotrienols.
> All forms of vitamin E are initially metabolized
> by omega-oxidation, which is catalyzed by cytochrome
> P450 enzymes. The steroid and xenobiotic receptor
> (SXR) is a nuclear receptor that regulates drug
> clearance in the liver and intestine via induction
> of genes involved in drug and xenobiotic metabolism.
> We show here that all four tocotrienols specifically
> bind to and activate SXR, whereas tocopherols
> neither bind nor activate. Surprisingly, tocotrienols
> show tissue-specific induction of SXR target genes,
> particularly CYP3A4. Tocotrienols up-regulate expression
> of CYP3A4 but not UDP-glucuronosyltransferase 1A1 (UGT1A1)
> or multidrug resistance protein-1 (MDR1) in primary
> hepatocytes. In contrast, tocotrienols induce MDR1
> and UGT1A1 but not CYP3A4 expression in intestinal LS180
> cells. We found that nuclear receptor corepressor (NCoR)
> is expressed at relatively high levels in intestinal
> LS180 cells compared with primary hepatocytes. The
> unliganded SXR interacts with NCoR, and this interaction
> is only partially disrupted by tocotrienols. Expression
> of a dominant-negative NCoR enhanced the ability of
> tocotrienols to induce CYP3A4 in LS180 cells, suggesting
> that NCoR plays an important role in tissue-specific
> gene regulation by SXR. Our findings provide a molecular
> mechanism explaining how vitamin supplements affect the
> absorption and effectiveness of drugs. Knowledge of
> drug-nutrient interactions may help reduce the incidence
> of decreased drug efficacy.
>
> > But it seems regular old tocopherol does some enzyme
> > induction as well.
>
> In mice.  However, should they be shown to activate
> SXR in humans, that would be a good reason to limit
> the dose per unit.
>
> > Read the last sentence on the abstract.
>
> > Moreover they properties that are useful in the
> > face on a number of common maladies. If
> > you don't see that you're clueless.
>
> On the contrary, I understand the risks of allowing
> tocotrienols on the market.  They should be illegal
> because they pose an unreasonable risk.

I don't agree. If I was GAWD, I might limit
the available dose to 100 mgs for now. There is a need for
at more research I will admit.

There are risks from not allowing them on the market
as well. And given it the valuable properties by
way of apoptosis in cancers and its power
as antioxidant in some tissues. The balance of the risk of
oxidative stress on the liver needs to be
looked at. Your paper is on in vitro work not in vivo.
I was more concerned by the research I cited on
the murine subjects.

We are going to disagree.......................Trig
From: trigonometry1972 on
On Oct 12, 8:39 am, Bob Officer <boboffic...(a)127.0.0.7> wrote:
> On Sun, 11 Oct 2009 23:44:54 -0700 (PDT), in misc.health.alternative,
>
> "trigonometry1...(a)gmail.com |" <trigonometry1...(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> >boswellia
>
> http://www.chinese-herbs.org/boswellia/boswellia-side-effects-and-int...
>
> <Cite>
>
> Side Effects:
>
>     *  Stomach pain;
>     * Diarrhea;
>     * Skin rash, burning;
>     * Stomach discomfort, including nausea;
>     * Acid reflux (heartburn);
>     * A feeling of fullness in stomach;
>
>     *  Chest pain
>     * Tightness in your throat or chest
>     * Breathing problem
>     * Swollen skin
>     * Skin hives, rash, or itchy skin
>
> Some studies reported the irritation of the skin from a multiherb
> product containing boswellia. And allergic contact dermatitis has
> been associated with the use of a naturopathic cream containing the
> herb extract.
>
>     *  Supplements that may have anticancer properties (mistletoe -
> Viscum album)
>     * Cholesterol-lowering supplements (such as garlic - Allium
> sativum)
>     * Antifungal agents (such as tea tree oil - Melaleuca
> alternifolia)
>     * Supplements used to treat joint diseases (such as glucosamine
> or chondroitin)
>
> Use the herb with caution and with your doctor’s supervising.
>
> <cite>
>
> The article doesn't discuss any standardizing method of extract or
> the variability of the active ingrediant.
>
> In a quick scan (about 20 minutes and about 100 web sites) across the
> web, I found hundreds of quackery type sites, all selling this
> extract for dozens in different ailments and conditions including one
> touting it as a treatment for brain tumors. I did find several of web
> sites were actually self-referencing, they may have had different
> domain names but were actually owned and operated by the same person
> or company.
>
> None of them actually had any sort of serious study or discussion on
> the efficacy of the treatment.
>
> --
> Bob Officer
> Posting the truthhttp://www.skeptics.com.au

It works. And as an old former GERDer, I have
alternative means of preventing the GI problems that
are better than what your orthodox medical Docs have on offer.
Much of what you call quackery is valid medicine.
One needs to skeptical of the orthodox medicine
as well as alternative medicine.
And frankly some are allergic to just about
everything.
From: Mark Thorson on
"trigonometry1972(a)gmail.com |" wrote:
>
> On Oct 12, 10:53 am, Mark Thorson <nos...(a)sonic.net> wrote:
> >
> > On the contrary, I understand the risks of allowing
> > tocotrienols on the market. They should be illegal
> > because they pose an unreasonable risk.
>
> I don't agree. If I was GAWD, I might limit
> the available dose to 100 mgs for now. There is a need for
> at more research I will admit.

That's a far movement from "obviously safe".
In the absence of more data on the risks,
it seems premature to allow them on the market.
They are not "obviously safe", and in fact are
obviously hazardous.

> There are risks from not allowing them on the market
> as well. And given it the valuable properties by
> way of apoptosis in cancers and its power
> as antioxidant in some tissues. The balance of the risk of
> oxidative stress on the liver needs to be
> looked at. Your paper is on in vitro work not in vivo.
> I was more concerned by the research I cited on
> the murine subjects.
>
> We are going to disagree.......................Trig

If they are to be used as an apoptosis modulator
in cancer therapy, that's not a nutritional purpose.
That's a drug purpose, and they should be treated
to the same clinical trials used for verifying
the safety and efficacy of any other drug.
I'd have no objection to making them available
by prescription.

I do object to making them available as supplements
for self-medication by people who are unaware of
the hazards. At this point in time, it appears
that know one really knows the full extent of
the risk.
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