From: Mark Thorson on
"trigonometry1972(a)gmail.com |" wrote:
>
> Tocotrienols are safe at semi-reasonable levels and with
> just a little discretion. It certainly no reason to ban them.
> Though they may not play well with some of your drugs.
> By the way why you aren't citing any references rather
> than just asserting.

I've posted this before. Note this is in humans.
Although animals usually are good models for many
systems, they are not a good model for xenobiotic
clearance mechanisms, because the receptor networks
differ even between humans and other primates.

Drug Metab Dispos. 2004 Oct;32(10):1075-82.
Tocotrienols activate the steroid and xenobiotic
receptor, SXR, and selectively regulate expression
of its target genes.
Zhou C, Tabb MM, Sadatrafiei A, Grun F, Blumberg B.
Department of Developmental and Cell Biology,
University of California, 5205 McGaugh Hall,
Irvine, CA 92697-2300, USA.

Vitamin E is an essential nutrient with antioxidant
activity. Vitamin E is comprised of eight members,
alpha-, beta-, gamma-, and delta-tocopherols and
alpha-, beta-, gamma-, and delta-tocotrienols.
All forms of vitamin E are initially metabolized
by omega-oxidation, which is catalyzed by cytochrome
P450 enzymes. The steroid and xenobiotic receptor
(SXR) is a nuclear receptor that regulates drug
clearance in the liver and intestine via induction
of genes involved in drug and xenobiotic metabolism.
We show here that all four tocotrienols specifically
bind to and activate SXR, whereas tocopherols
neither bind nor activate. Surprisingly, tocotrienols
show tissue-specific induction of SXR target genes,
particularly CYP3A4. Tocotrienols up-regulate expression
of CYP3A4 but not UDP-glucuronosyltransferase 1A1 (UGT1A1)
or multidrug resistance protein-1 (MDR1) in primary
hepatocytes. In contrast, tocotrienols induce MDR1
and UGT1A1 but not CYP3A4 expression in intestinal LS180
cells. We found that nuclear receptor corepressor (NCoR)
is expressed at relatively high levels in intestinal
LS180 cells compared with primary hepatocytes. The
unliganded SXR interacts with NCoR, and this interaction
is only partially disrupted by tocotrienols. Expression
of a dominant-negative NCoR enhanced the ability of
tocotrienols to induce CYP3A4 in LS180 cells, suggesting
that NCoR plays an important role in tissue-specific
gene regulation by SXR. Our findings provide a molecular
mechanism explaining how vitamin supplements affect the
absorption and effectiveness of drugs. Knowledge of
drug-nutrient interactions may help reduce the incidence
of decreased drug efficacy.

> But it seems regular old tocopherol does some enzyme
> induction as well.

In mice. However, should they be shown to activate
SXR in humans, that would be a good reason to limit
the dose per unit.

> Read the last sentence on the abstract.
>
> Moreover they properties that are useful in the
> face on a number of common maladies. If
> you don't see that you're clueless.

On the contrary, I understand the risks of allowing
tocotrienols on the market. They should be illegal
because they pose an unreasonable risk.
From: Mark Probert on
On Oct 12, 10:14 am, "trigonometry1...(a)gmail.com |"
<trigonometry1...(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> On Oct 12, 5:00 am, "t" <tool...(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > "Mark Probert" <mark.prob...(a)gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> >news:e8cac353-a30a-41ea-8c30-65b59a632ae6(a)f10g2000vbf.googlegroups.com....
> > On Oct 11, 12:13 am, Jan Drew <jdrew63...(a)aol.com> wrote:
>
> > > On Oct 9, 4:30 pm, Mark Probert <mark.prob...(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > On Oct 9, 4:11 pm, "trigonometry1...(a)gmail.com |"
>
> > > > <trigonometry1...(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > On Oct 9, 1:01 pm, catherine hoffman <choffman0...(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > > On Oct 9, 12:28 pm, Mark Thorson <nos...(a)sonic.net> wrote:
>
> > > > > > > Excellent article in New England Journal of Medicine
> > > > > > > about contamination in the severly underregulated
> > > > > > > dietary supplements business. Many products contain
> > > > > > > dangerous, unapproved drugs, and yet the public is
> > > > > > > largely unaware how bad the situation is. A majority
> > > > > > > of the public and even a third of medical students
> > > > > > > wrongly believe that supplements have to be approved
> > > > > > > by a government agency.
>
> > > > > > >http://healthcarereform.nejm.org/?p=2017&query=home
>
> > > > > > > The dietary supplement industry is a dirty business,
> > > > > > > sorely in need of reform.
>
> > > > > > WoW!,
> > > > > > I know quite a bit about the FDA, but I didn't know that they did
> > > > > > not
> > > > > > regulate the supplements. Is that also true for MLM companies?
>
> > > > > Its not they don't have enough authority rather they choose
> > > > > not to enforce it.
>
> > > > Incorrect. They do not have enough authority. DSHEA.
>
> > >http://www.naturalnews.com/z008269_health_medicine_organized_medicine....
>
> > > Why organized medicine wants to outlaw nutrition and turn healers into
> > > criminals
> > > by Mike Adams, the Health Ranger, NaturalNews Editor
>
> > No one wants to outlaw nutrition.
> > Prove it.
>
> But some want it to know its place. LOL
> There are those who would suppress freedom of
> speech on topic here in the States.

The claim has been made, i.e. that organized medicine, that fictitious
entity, wants to outlaw nutrition.

I want to see actual proof of this claim.

Note that if Mikey Adams said the sky was blue, I would schedule a
visit with my ophthalmologist to get my eyes checked. AFAIAC, he and
his henchmen are liars to the core, and to the Corps.

From: Mark Probert on
On Oct 12, 10:45 am, "t" <tool...(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> <trigonometry1...(a)gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:445e3497-5789-42c0-a771-6f82104cb5ed(a)12g2000pri.googlegroups.com...
> On Oct 12, 5:00 am, "t" <tool...(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > "Mark Probert" <mark.prob...(a)gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> >news:e8cac353-a30a-41ea-8c30-65b59a632ae6(a)f10g2000vbf.googlegroups.com....
> > On Oct 11, 12:13 am, Jan Drew <jdrew63...(a)aol.com> wrote:
>
> > > On Oct 9, 4:30 pm, Mark Probert <mark.prob...(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > On Oct 9, 4:11 pm, "trigonometry1...(a)gmail.com |"
>
> > > > <trigonometry1...(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > On Oct 9, 1:01 pm, catherine hoffman <choffman0...(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > > On Oct 9, 12:28 pm, Mark Thorson <nos...(a)sonic.net> wrote:
>
> > > > > > > Excellent article in New England Journal of Medicine
> > > > > > > about contamination in the severly underregulated
> > > > > > > dietary supplements business. Many products contain
> > > > > > > dangerous, unapproved drugs, and yet the public is
> > > > > > > largely unaware how bad the situation is. A majority
> > > > > > > of the public and even a third of medical students
> > > > > > > wrongly believe that supplements have to be approved
> > > > > > > by a government agency.
>
> > > > > > >http://healthcarereform.nejm.org/?p=2017&query=home
>
> > > > > > > The dietary supplement industry is a dirty business,
> > > > > > > sorely in need of reform.
>
> > > > > > WoW!,
> > > > > > I know quite a bit about the FDA, but I didn't know that they did
> > > > > > not
> > > > > > regulate the supplements. Is that also true for MLM companies?
>
> > > > > Its not they don't have enough authority rather they choose
> > > > > not to enforce it.
>
> > > > Incorrect. They do not have enough authority. DSHEA.
>
> > >http://www.naturalnews.com/z008269_health_medicine_organized_medicine....
>
> > > Why organized medicine wants to outlaw nutrition and turn healers into
> > > criminals
> > > by Mike Adams, the Health Ranger, NaturalNews Editor
>
> > No one wants to outlaw nutrition.
> > Prove it.
>
> But some want it to know its place. LOL
> There are those who would suppress freedom of
> speech on topic here in the States.
>
> Just can me Uncle, Young Master..................Trig
> As there are some who would suppress simple freedom here and everywhere.-

Yes, Jan Drew, who tells people to shut up and posts their personal
information, you, etc.

I have never seen an evidence based poster who does what you and your
ilk do.

From: Mark Probert on
On Oct 12, 12:43 pm, PeterB <p...(a)mytrashmail.com> wrote:
> On Oct 10, 10:29 pm, Mark Probert <mark.prob...(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Oct 10, 1:00 am, "trigonometry1...(a)gmail.com |"
>
> > <trigonometry1...(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> > > On Oct 9, 1:29 pm, Mark Probert <mark.prob...(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > On Oct 9, 3:48 pm, "trigonometry1...(a)gmail.com |"
>
> > > > <trigonometry1...(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > On Oct 9, 12:28 pm, Mark Thorson <nos...(a)sonic.net> wrote:
>
> > > > > > Excellent article in New England Journal of Medicine
> > > > > > about contamination in the severly underregulated
> > > > > > dietary supplements business.  Many products contain
> > > > > > dangerous, unapproved drugs, and yet the public is
> > > > > > largely unaware how bad the situation is.  A majority
> > > > > > of the public and even a third of medical students
> > > > > > wrongly believe that supplements have to be approved
> > > > > > by a government agency.
>
> > > > > >http://healthcarereform.nejm.org/?p=2017&query=home
>
> > > > > > The dietary supplement industry is a dirty business,
> > > > > > sorely in need of reform.
>
> > > > > Ha unapproved drugs they call them. I'll bet
> > > > > they include alot of perfectly safe ingredients
> > > > > in their list of "unapproved drugs,"
> > > > > I wouldn't trust most proposed reforms other than
> > > > > perhaps a bit more funding and monitoring to prevent
> > > > > pharma drugs and toxics being slipped in by
> > > > > crooks.
>
> > > > I would like to see:
>
> > > > 1. Mandatory reporting of all adverse events, lawsuits, etc.
>
> > > > 2. Complete disclosure of all ingredients, and banning the term
> > > > "Proprietary bland" etc.
>
> > > > 3. Requirement that there be some standard of efficacy.
>
> > > > For starters.
>
> > > The last requirement is evil, wicked, and corrupt
> > > when one looks how the EU is doing it regulation of
> > > supplements.
>
> > I usully try to ignore the EU since there is enough action here.
>
> > It is all to easy for government to
>
> > > deny, drag their feet, and ignore the science and
> > > then demand excessive levels of evidence and/or
> > > wring their hands about safety to the point of
> > > absolute stupidity.
>
> > That is precisely what the FDA wrt Thalidomide.
>
> > > Vitamins and nutrients are not drugs.
>
> > However, when medical claims are made, they have to be substantiated
> > by something more than saleshype.
>
> > > Understand putting something on the market without
> > > a clear claim should be an option as well.
>
> > Caveat emptor.
>
> > > I do agree their should be full content disclosure.
> > > And I believe the US FDA already has the power on that
> > > point if they chose to exercise it.
>
> > No, they do not. I have had this issue with the FDA and FTC and
> > they do not have it.
>
> FDA may not have unique enforcement over supplements, but they have
> the power to warn the public about products (herbs, for instance) they
> consider potentially harmful.  For example, Kava.   Why isn't FDA
> warning about more than a tiny percentage of supplements?  

Most supplements are "do nothings", thus neither harmful or beneficial
for most people. The FDA, wisely, stays out of this quagmire.

It's
> because, despite decades of use by the public, there is little
> evidence of harm exceeding low-level allergic reactions in the vast
> majority of such products.  Even Kava is not proven to be harmful in
> isolation from pre-existing hepatic disease or the use of alcohol.  As
> for FTC, it's scope of powers combined with DSHEA does provide a
> framework for safety that has been working just fine.   Your sponsors
> may not like it, but that's too bad.
>
> http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med/msg/f569f86c8ed22f4e-

Prove I have sponsors. Oh, that is right, I gave you the opportunity
to do so, and make some money while doing it, and you weaseled out of
it.

From: t on
So?
"Mark Probert" <mark.probert(a)gmail.com> wrote in message
news:45271036-9513-443d-a3de-23280fbe0cf1(a)q14g2000vbi.googlegroups.com...
On Oct 12, 10:45 am, "t" <tool...(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> <trigonometry1...(a)gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:445e3497-5789-42c0-a771-6f82104cb5ed(a)12g2000pri.googlegroups.com...
> On Oct 12, 5:00 am, "t" <tool...(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > "Mark Probert" <mark.prob...(a)gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> >news:e8cac353-a30a-41ea-8c30-65b59a632ae6(a)f10g2000vbf.googlegroups.com...
> > On Oct 11, 12:13 am, Jan Drew <jdrew63...(a)aol.com> wrote:
>
> > > On Oct 9, 4:30 pm, Mark Probert <mark.prob...(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > On Oct 9, 4:11 pm, "trigonometry1...(a)gmail.com |"
>
> > > > <trigonometry1...(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > On Oct 9, 1:01 pm, catherine hoffman <choffman0...(a)gmail.com>
> > > > > wrote:
>
> > > > > > On Oct 9, 12:28 pm, Mark Thorson <nos...(a)sonic.net> wrote:
>
> > > > > > > Excellent article in New England Journal of Medicine
> > > > > > > about contamination in the severly underregulated
> > > > > > > dietary supplements business. Many products contain
> > > > > > > dangerous, unapproved drugs, and yet the public is
> > > > > > > largely unaware how bad the situation is. A majority
> > > > > > > of the public and even a third of medical students
> > > > > > > wrongly believe that supplements have to be approved
> > > > > > > by a government agency.
>
> > > > > > >http://healthcarereform.nejm.org/?p=2017&query=home
>
> > > > > > > The dietary supplement industry is a dirty business,
> > > > > > > sorely in need of reform.
>
> > > > > > WoW!,
> > > > > > I know quite a bit about the FDA, but I didn't know that they
> > > > > > did
> > > > > > not
> > > > > > regulate the supplements. Is that also true for MLM companies?
>
> > > > > Its not they don't have enough authority rather they choose
> > > > > not to enforce it.
>
> > > > Incorrect. They do not have enough authority. DSHEA.
>
> > >http://www.naturalnews.com/z008269_health_medicine_organized_medicine...
>
> > > Why organized medicine wants to outlaw nutrition and turn healers into
> > > criminals
> > > by Mike Adams, the Health Ranger, NaturalNews Editor
>
> > No one wants to outlaw nutrition.
> > Prove it.
>
> But some want it to know its place. LOL
> There are those who would suppress freedom of
> speech on topic here in the States.
>
> Just can me Uncle, Young Master..................Trig
> As there are some who would suppress simple freedom here and everywhere.-

Yes, Jan Drew, who tells people to shut up and posts their personal
information, you, etc.

I have never seen an evidence based poster who does what you and your
ilk do.

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