From: trigonometry1972 on
On Oct 11, 12:13 pm, "Existential Angst" <UNfit...(a)UNoptonline.net>
wrote:
> "Mark Thorson" <nos...(a)sonic.net> wrote in message
>
> news:4AD228D2.C51B845A(a)sonic.net...
>
>
>
> > "trigonometry1...(a)gmail.com |" wrote:
>
> >> And as to vitamin E interfering in drug
> >> metabolism, it is the tocopherol form that
> >> is the most active when compare to tocotrienol
> >> in altering drug metabolism according to some research
> >> and it takes a really whopping dose in this animal model.
> >> PMID: 15649653
>
> > The tocopherol forms do not activate the SXR
> > receptor and the cascade of xenobiotic clearance
> > mechanisms it controls.  The tocotrienols do
> > activate SXR, and that is why they are a risk.
>
> > If you don't understand that, you are completely
> > clueless with regard to the hazard of taking
> > tocotrienols.  And that's precisely why you need
> > to be protected from yourself.  Even if you don't
> > want this protection, there's lots of other people
> > who might believe the line used to sell tocotrienols
> > who do need this protection.  Tocotrienols inevitably
> > will cause considerable mischief if made widely
> > available to the public.
>
> Sounds like this "mischief" can be used to good advantage, if strategized
> correctly.
> Xenophobia is not nec a bad thing.
> Thus, Trig's point about who the real "culprit" is (drugs or trienols)
> remains valid.
> --
> EA

The following suggests a dose of tocotrienol is between
200 and 1000 milligrams is safe though research on the
the potential liver problems in the murine model is more recent.

And some of the issues mentioned in this article
may relate to vitamin E lowering vitamin K levels.
One of the reasons I am of the opinion taking
a vitamin K supplement along vitamin E supplementation
is prudent.
And if one lives were vitamin K isn't OTC, cooking
greens with butter maybe helpful. Parsley and
cilantro in both salads and cooking are ways
to increase K1 in the diet. Most get pitifully
small amounts of any form of vitamin K in their
diet. There is evidence that the vitamin K generated
in the gut is unavailable to a great extent in humans
as I recall. Though there are exceptions i.e. fermented
soy, natto.

Vitam Horm. 2007;76:203-61.

Tocotrienols: the emerging face of natural vitamin E.

Sen CK, Khanna S, Rink C, Roy S.

Laboratory of Molecular Medicine, Department of Surgery, Davis Heart
and Lung Research Institute,
The Ohio State University Medical Center,
Columbus, Ohio 43210, USA.

Natural vitamin E includes eight chemically distinct molecules:
alpha-, beta-, gamma-, and delta-tocopherols and alpha-, beta-,
gamma-, and delta-tocotrienols.

More than 95% of all studies on vitamin E are directed
toward the specific study of alpha-tocopherol. The other
forms of natural vitamin E remain poorly understood.
The abundance of alpha-tocopherol in the human body
and the comparable efficiency of all vitamin E molecules
as antioxidants led biologists to neglect the non-tocopherol
vitamin E molecules as topics for basic and clinical
research. Recent developments warrant a serious
reconsideration of this conventional wisdom.
The tocotrienol subfamily of natural vitamin E
possesses powerful neuroprotective, anticancer, and
cholesterol-lowering properties that are often not
exhibited by tocopherols. Current developments
in vitamin E research clearly indicate that members
of the vitamin E family are not redundant
with respect to their biological functions.
alpha-Tocotrienol, gamma-tocopherol, and delta-tocotrienol
have emerged as vitamin E molecules with functions
in health and disease that are clearly distinct from
that of alpha-tocopherol. At nanomolar concentration,
alpha-tocotrienol, not alpha-tocopherol, prevents
neurodegeneration. On a concentration basis, this
finding represents the most potent of all biological
functions exhibited by any natural vitamin E molecule.
Recently, it has been suggested that the safe dose
of various tocotrienols for human consumption is
200-1000/day. A rapidly expanding body of evidence
supports that members of the vitamin E family
are functionally unique. In recognition of
this fact, title claims in publications should be limited
to the specific form of vitamin E studied. For example,
evidence for toxicity of a specific form of
tocopherol in excess may not be used to conclude
that high-dosage "vitamin E" supplementation may
ncrease all-cause mortality. Such conclusion incorrectly
implies that tocotrienols are toxic as well under
conditions where tocotrienols
were not even considered. The current state of knowledge warrants
strategic investment into the lesser known forms of vitamin E.
This will enable prudent selection of the appropriate vitamin
E molecule for studies addressing a specific
health need.


PMID: 17628176 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
From: t on

"Mark Probert" <mark.probert(a)gmail.com> wrote in message
news:fc0f95c4-dd57-49dd-9a09-9ecbb75cad82(a)e34g2000vbm.googlegroups.com...
On Oct 11, 12:05 am, Jan Drew <jdrew63...(a)aol.com> wrote:
> On Oct 9, 4:29 pm, Mark Probert <mark.prob...(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Oct 9, 3:48 pm, "trigonometry1...(a)gmail.com |"
>
> > <trigonometry1...(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> > > On Oct 9, 12:28 pm, Mark Thorson <nos...(a)sonic.net> wrote:
>
> > > > Excellent article in New England Journal of Medicine
> > > > about contamination in the severly underregulated
> > > > dietary supplements business. Many products contain
> > > > dangerous, unapproved drugs, and yet the public is
> > > > largely unaware how bad the situation is. A majority
> > > > of the public and even a third of medical students
> > > > wrongly believe that supplements have to be approved
> > > > by a government agency.
>
> > > >http://healthcarereform.nejm.org/?p=2017&query=home
>
> > > > The dietary supplement industry is a dirty business,
> > > > sorely in need of reform.
>
> > > Ha unapproved drugs they call them. I'll bet
> > > they include alot of perfectly safe ingredients
> > > in their list of "unapproved drugs,"
> > > I wouldn't trust most proposed reforms other than
> > > perhaps a bit more funding and monitoring to prevent
> > > pharma drugs and toxics being slipped in by
> > > crooks.
>
> > I would like to see:
>
> > 1. Mandatory reporting of all adverse events, lawsuits, etc.
>
> > 2. Complete disclosure of all ingredients, and banning the term
> > "Proprietary bland" etc.
>
> > 3. Requirement that there be some standard of efficacy.
>
> > For starters.
>
> tryhttp://www.google.com/
>
If you truly want to play "american" or any other brand of deadly Roulette,
all you need to do is trust the AMA, doctors, pharm industry. Since they
kill more people than practicaly any other cause. Perhaps more than ANY
other cause.Your doctor is more likely to kill you than even car wrecks,
which get a few hundred thousand.

>


From: t on

"Mark Probert" <mark.probert(a)gmail.com> wrote in message
news:e8cac353-a30a-41ea-8c30-65b59a632ae6(a)f10g2000vbf.googlegroups.com...
On Oct 11, 12:13 am, Jan Drew <jdrew63...(a)aol.com> wrote:
> On Oct 9, 4:30 pm, Mark Probert <mark.prob...(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Oct 9, 4:11 pm, "trigonometry1...(a)gmail.com |"
>
> > <trigonometry1...(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> > > On Oct 9, 1:01 pm, catherine hoffman <choffman0...(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > On Oct 9, 12:28 pm, Mark Thorson <nos...(a)sonic.net> wrote:
>
> > > > > Excellent article in New England Journal of Medicine
> > > > > about contamination in the severly underregulated
> > > > > dietary supplements business. Many products contain
> > > > > dangerous, unapproved drugs, and yet the public is
> > > > > largely unaware how bad the situation is. A majority
> > > > > of the public and even a third of medical students
> > > > > wrongly believe that supplements have to be approved
> > > > > by a government agency.
>
> > > > >http://healthcarereform.nejm.org/?p=2017&query=home
>
> > > > > The dietary supplement industry is a dirty business,
> > > > > sorely in need of reform.
>
> > > > WoW!,
> > > > I know quite a bit about the FDA, but I didn't know that they did
> > > > not
> > > > regulate the supplements. Is that also true for MLM companies?
>
> > > Its not they don't have enough authority rather they choose
> > > not to enforce it.
>
> > Incorrect. They do not have enough authority. DSHEA.
>
> http://www.naturalnews.com/z008269_health_medicine_organized_medicine...
>
> Why organized medicine wants to outlaw nutrition and turn healers into
> criminals
> by Mike Adams, the Health Ranger, NaturalNews Editor

No one wants to outlaw nutrition.
Prove it.

From: t on

"Mark Probert" <mark.probert(a)gmail.com> wrote in message
news:0d5ded53-5b3e-4d4b-af61-31a09ac32a2a(a)j9g2000vbp.googlegroups.com...
On Oct 11, 10:04 am, "Existential Angst" <UNfit...(a)UNoptonline.net>
wrote:
> "Mark Probert" <mark.prob...(a)gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:6f235396-4aac-4704-befd-569fcf15bd69(a)m11g2000vbl.googlegroups.com...
> On Oct 9, 4:55 pm, PeterB <p...(a)mytrashmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Oct 9, 4:29 pm, Mark Probert <mark.prob...(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > On Oct 9, 3:48 pm, "trigonometry1...(a)gmail.com |"
>
> > > <trigonometry1...(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > On Oct 9, 12:28 pm, Mark Thorson <nos...(a)sonic.net> wrote:
>
> > > > > Excellent article in New England Journal of Medicine
> > > > > about contamination in the severly underregulated
> > > > > dietary supplements business. Many products contain
> > > > > dangerous, unapproved drugs, and yet the public is
> > > > > largely unaware how bad the situation is. A majority
> > > > > of the public and even a third of medical students
> > > > > wrongly believe that supplements have to be approved
> > > > > by a government agency.
>
> > > > >http://healthcarereform.nejm.org/?p=2017&query=home
>
> > > > > The dietary supplement industry is a dirty business,
> > > > > sorely in need of reform.
>
> > > > Ha unapproved drugs they call them. I'll bet
> > > > they include alot of perfectly safe ingredients
> > > > in their list of "unapproved drugs,"
> > > > I wouldn't trust most proposed reforms other than
> > > > perhaps a bit more funding and monitoring to prevent
> > > > pharma drugs and toxics being slipped in by
> > > > crooks.
>
> > > I would like to see:
>
> > > 1. Mandatory reporting of all adverse events, lawsuits, etc.
>
> > > 2. Complete disclosure of all ingredients, and banning the term
> > > "Proprietary bland" etc.
>
> > > 3. Requirement that there be some standard of efficacy.
>
> > > For starters.
>
> > There is substantial "GMP" compliance by most of the reputable
> > manufacturers, and many provide certified assays on request.
>
> Years ago, a doctor gave me a can of a supplement touted to treat
> ADHD. It smelled pretty good, so we decided to try it on my son. The
> problem was, it would not dissolve. It created a thick, gritty soupy
> material that he would not touch, and, I found unpalatable.
>
> I wrote to the manufacturer who refused to tell me the contents (that
> is what a proprietary blend is).
>
> Since we could not use it for the intended purpose, I used it in my
> vegetable garden along with home made compost.
>
> Best vegetables ever.
>
> So, I wrote the manufacturer an endorsement of their product as a
> fertilizer. I even sent them a zucchini, just so they could see how
> good it was and posted it on their website.
>
> They were not too happy.
> ===========================================
>
> Really? You deluded yourself with the notion that they did anything more
> than delete you note?



>
> -------------------------------------------
>
> Since a
>
> > large percentage of these products are made using pharmaceutically-
> > made materials,
>
> That bears being proven by you.
>
> > some of this problem rests with the drug makers.-
>
> Nah. The problems rest with the whole idea of supplements. A balanced
> diet does a fine job and no supplements are needed.
> ===============================================
>
> So I guess you re-balance yer diet each time the RDA is changed, eh?
>
> Let's see.... How can I quantify the ignorance of your statement....
> Let's see.... OH, I GOT IT!!!
>
> ""Even the AMA endorses multivites!!!""


> Which makes YOU an even more useless source of info than Big Pharm/Big
> Med!!
> Congrats.


I

From: t on

"D. C. Sessions" <dcs(a)lumbercartel.com> wrote in message
news:7lkaq6-5ko.ln1(a)news.lumbercartel.com...
> In message
> <1dc61f98-40e0-45b7-9a80-f60946e81385(a)o13g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>,
> PeterB wrote:
>
>> There is substantial "GMP" compliance by most of the reputable
>> manufacturers, and many provide certified assays on request. Since a
>> large percentage of these products are made using pharmaceutically-
>> made materials, some of this problem rests with the drug makers.
>
> Hell, a lot of these products *are* pharmaceuticals. They include
> anything and everything from lead oxides to sildenafil citrate
> and barbiturates, with side trips into the amphetamine family.
>
> The only difference is that they're strictly /caveat/ /emptor/
> with no requirements that the purchaser even be informed what's
> in them. Turn the clock back to the 19th century and Lydia
> Pinkham's Elixir.
>
Whine, wimper, whine.

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