Alternative Vaccine Schedule?
in [Alternative]
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From: JR on 16 Nov 2005 12:01 I have a 6 week old son, and our Doctor has informed us that he is due to receive the following shots at his 8 week visit: - Pediarix (DTaP, Hep-B, IPV) - Hib - Prevnar (PCV) Now there is obviously a lot of debate surrounding vaccinations There is some research indicating that the increase in vaccines may be a cause for the sharp increase in autism (specifically the use of thimerosal and the MMR shot are indicated as possible causes). >From my research there appears to be no conclusive evidence one way or another. The mainstream pediatric community seems to believe that the benefits of the vaccines still greatly outweigh the risks. I tend to agree with this and don't necessarily question the vaccinations but I do question the aggressive schedule and timeline of the immunization schedule. Why give so many diseases in one day/one shot? If my child has a reaction how will I know which vaccine caused the reaction? The literature clearly states that a contra-indication to some of the vaccines (i.e. - DTaP) is a reaction at the first shot (beyond normal reactions - slightly elevated temperature, etc.). I also found online that the manufacturer insert for Prevnar indicates that when "Prevnar is given at the same time as HIB, pertussis, and polio vaccines, it may lower the efficacy for some children." My personal opinion is that doctor's do not discuss these issues enough with their patients. For example, I have a friend who had triplets. After their DTaP vaccine they had a severe reaction. I read later in the scientific literature that low-birthweight was another contra-indication for the DTaP vaccine. So my thinking is why not spread out the vaccines? Also, perhaps some vaccines can happen later? The problem is I don't know what alternative schedule would make most sense. Has anyone else gone down this road? Are there any alternative schedules that anyone has used with a Doctor? (i'm concerned about alienating my doctor, etc. I want to come up with something that we can both be comfortable with). Thank you. JR -
From: Mark on 16 Nov 2005 12:50 JR wrote: > I have a 6 week old son, and our Doctor has informed us that he is due > to receive the following shots at his 8 week visit: > > - Pediarix (DTaP, Hep-B, IPV) > - Hib > - Prevnar (PCV) > > Now there is obviously a lot of debate surrounding vaccinations There > is some research indicating that the increase in vaccines may be a > cause for the sharp increase in autism (specifically the use of > thimerosal and the MMR shot are indicated as possible causes). > > >From my research there appears to be no conclusive evidence one way or > another. The mainstream pediatric community seems to believe that the > benefits of the vaccines still greatly outweigh the risks. Actually, there have been several well-designed, large studies that fail to demonstrate a link between either MMR or thimerosal-containing vaccines with rates of autism. > > I tend to agree with this and don't necessarily question the > vaccinations but I do question the aggressive schedule and timeline of > the immunization schedule. > Mostly it's for convenience, both the parents' and the doctor's. It's kind of like getting more bang for your buck. Not everyone wants to come to the doctor's office every month for the first year. > Why give so many diseases in one day/one shot? If my child has a > reaction how will I know which vaccine caused the reaction? The > literature clearly states that a contra-indication to some of the > vaccines (i.e. - DTaP) is a reaction at the first shot (beyond normal > reactions - slightly elevated temperature, etc.). > > I also found online that the manufacturer insert for Prevnar indicates > that when "Prevnar is given at the same time as HIB, pertussis, and > polio vaccines, it may lower the efficacy for some children." > > My personal opinion is that doctor's do not discuss these issues enough > with their patients. For example, I have a friend who had triplets. > After their DTaP vaccine they had a severe reaction. I read later in > the scientific literature that low-birthweight was another > contra-indication for the DTaP vaccine. > > So my thinking is why not spread out the vaccines? Also, perhaps some > vaccines can happen later? The problem is I don't know what > alternative schedule would make most sense. One problem with delaying certain vaccines is that you leave the child unprotected during the timeframe when they are most vulnerable to those specific diseases. Pertussis, for example, is likely to cause a hacky cough in a four year old, but it is much more likely to cause "whooping cough" (which is potentially fatal) in an infant. > > Has anyone else gone down this road? Are there any alternative > schedules that anyone has used with a Doctor? (i'm concerned about > alienating my doctor, etc. I want to come up with something that we > can both be comfortable with). > > Thank you. > > JR > - I have a couple families in my practice who follow an alternative vaccine schedule. They want their child to be vaccinated, but they raised some of the same concerns that you did, namely concern about giving so many immunizations in a single visit. The schedule I follow with these families is as follows: Birth -- Hep B #1 1 month -- Hep B #2 2 months -- DTaP and IPV 3 months -- Hib and Prevnar 4 months -- DTaP and IPV 5 months -- Hib and Prevnar 6 months -- DTaP and IPV 7 months -- Hib and Prevnar 9 months -- Hep B #3 12 months -- Varicella and Hib 15 months -- MMR 18 months -- DTaP 4 years -- MMR 5 years -- DTaP and IPV 11 years -- Tetanus (or Tetanus and Pertussis) booster This schedule accomplishes the purpose of making sure the child is vaccinated adequately and in a timely manner, while allowing the parents to have their concerns addressed. Personally, I don't have any worries about the standard schedule, but I use this alternate schedule if parents want to. Feel free to take this schedule to your pediatrician and see what he/she says. And BTW, don't trust me when I say I'm a pediatrician (which I am). Any yahoo on the internet can talk a good game, but before you make any decisions about your or your child's health, make sure you are getting your information from someone who you know is legitimate. Mark, MD, FAAP
From: PeterB on 16 Nov 2005 14:25 JR wrote: > I have a 6 week old son, and our Doctor has informed us that he is due > to receive the following shots at his 8 week visit: > > - Pediarix (DTaP, Hep-B, IPV) > - Hib > - Prevnar (PCV) > > Now there is obviously a lot of debate surrounding vaccinations There > is some research indicating that the increase in vaccines may be a > cause for the sharp increase in autism (specifically the use of > thimerosal and the MMR shot are indicated as possible causes). > > >From my research there appears to be no conclusive evidence one way or > another. The mainstream pediatric community seems to believe that the > benefits of the vaccines still greatly outweigh the risks. > > I tend to agree with this and don't necessarily question the > vaccinations but I do question the aggressive schedule and timeline of > the immunization schedule. > > Why give so many diseases in one day/one shot? If my child has a > reaction how will I know which vaccine caused the reaction? The > literature clearly states that a contra-indication to some of the > vaccines (i.e. - DTaP) is a reaction at the first shot (beyond normal > reactions - slightly elevated temperature, etc.). > > I also found online that the manufacturer insert for Prevnar indicates > that when "Prevnar is given at the same time as HIB, pertussis, and > polio vaccines, it may lower the efficacy for some children." > > My personal opinion is that doctor's do not discuss these issues enough > with their patients. For example, I have a friend who had triplets. > After their DTaP vaccine they had a severe reaction. I read later in > the scientific literature that low-birthweight was another > contra-indication for the DTaP vaccine. > > So my thinking is why not spread out the vaccines? Also, perhaps some > vaccines can happen later? The problem is I don't know what > alternative schedule would make most sense. > > Has anyone else gone down this road? Are there any alternative > schedules that anyone has used with a Doctor? (i'm concerned about > alienating my doctor, etc. I want to come up with something that we > can both be comfortable with). > > Thank you. > > JR The ability to report an adverse event that accurately correlates to a specific vaccine is certainly an issue. You would have no way of knowing. For that matter, it could well be that the combined effect of so many vaccines increases the probability of an ADE, although CDC states that "...available scientific data show that simultaneous vaccination with multiple vaccines has no adverse effect on the *normal* childhood immune system." This begs the question, of course, as to whether you find out that your child's immune system is *not* normal only after a potentially harmful ADE occurs. I might add, although Mark MD pharma blogs here on a regular basis (yes, that's his business, if you'll pardon the double entendre), that doesn't mean his practice is either charitable, or particularly informative. PeterB
From: Mark Probert on 16 Nov 2005 14:55 PeterB wrote: > JR wrote: > >>I have a 6 week old son, and our Doctor has informed us that he is due >>to receive the following shots at his 8 week visit: >> >>- Pediarix (DTaP, Hep-B, IPV) >>- Hib >>- Prevnar (PCV) >> >>Now there is obviously a lot of debate surrounding vaccinations There >>is some research indicating that the increase in vaccines may be a >>cause for the sharp increase in autism (specifically the use of >>thimerosal and the MMR shot are indicated as possible causes). >> >>>From my research there appears to be no conclusive evidence one way or >>another. The mainstream pediatric community seems to believe that the >>benefits of the vaccines still greatly outweigh the risks. >> >>I tend to agree with this and don't necessarily question the >>vaccinations but I do question the aggressive schedule and timeline of >>the immunization schedule. >> >>Why give so many diseases in one day/one shot? If my child has a >>reaction how will I know which vaccine caused the reaction? The >>literature clearly states that a contra-indication to some of the >>vaccines (i.e. - DTaP) is a reaction at the first shot (beyond normal >>reactions - slightly elevated temperature, etc.). >> >>I also found online that the manufacturer insert for Prevnar indicates >>that when "Prevnar is given at the same time as HIB, pertussis, and >>polio vaccines, it may lower the efficacy for some children." >> >>My personal opinion is that doctor's do not discuss these issues enough >>with their patients. For example, I have a friend who had triplets. >>After their DTaP vaccine they had a severe reaction. I read later in >>the scientific literature that low-birthweight was another >>contra-indication for the DTaP vaccine. >> >>So my thinking is why not spread out the vaccines? Also, perhaps some >>vaccines can happen later? The problem is I don't know what >>alternative schedule would make most sense. >> >>Has anyone else gone down this road? Are there any alternative >>schedules that anyone has used with a Doctor? (i'm concerned about >>alienating my doctor, etc. I want to come up with something that we >>can both be comfortable with). >> >>Thank you. >> >>JR > > > The ability to report an adverse event that accurately correlates to a > specific vaccine is certainly an issue. You would have no way of > knowing. For that matter, it could well be that the combined effect of > so many vaccines increases the probability of an ADE, although CDC > states that "...available scientific data show that simultaneous > vaccination with multiple vaccines has no adverse effect on the > *normal* childhood immune system." If you disagree with that statement, please post something, other than your opinion, to show you have a basis for it. You see, I posted an article some time back which said that the CDC is correct. http://groups.google.com/group/misc.kids.health/msg/f22a1f1aa1cf6533?q=%20immune%2010,000%20group:misc.health.alternative&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&c2coff=1&as_drrb=b&as_mind=12&as_minm=5&as_miny=2001&as_maxd=16&as_maxm=8&as_maxy=2004&rnum=1 http://tinyurl.com/c6x7x This begs the question, of course, > as to whether you find out that your child's immune system is *not* > normal only after a potentially harmful ADE occurs. I might add, > although Mark MD pharma blogs here on a regular basis (yes, that's his > business, if you'll pardon the double entendre), that doesn't mean his > practice is either charitable, or particularly informative. Wow...I am impressed...you managed to squeeze several ad hominems into one paragraph without using grease...
From: Mark on 16 Nov 2005 15:32
PeterB wrote: > I might add, > although Mark MD pharma blogs here on a regular basis (yes, that's his > business, if you'll pardon the double entendre), that doesn't mean his > practice is either charitable, or particularly informative. > > PeterB I'm sorry, but tell me please: Who the hell are you? As far as I know, I've never interacted with you before, so I'm wondering how you know enough about me to call me a "Pharma-blogger". [And what is a "Pharma-blogger" anyway?] If you are insinuating that I'm somehow paid to post on newsgroups -- far different from "blogs", as you should know -- then you and I both are waiting to see the check. I look into these groups because I'm interested in the health of children. That, actually, *is* my business. As to the issue of charitability or informativeness, unless you have any information to the contrary, I'd thank you to not speculate on the nature of my practice. I doubt you've ever been in my office, so I doubt you can speak from any position of knowledge. Mark, MD |