From: Mark Probert on
On Dec 18, 7:12 pm, Kofi <k...(a)anon.un> wrote:
> > As for being a felon in possession, I often wonder how the gun right
> > absolutists, those who claim that owning a gun is an inalienable right
> > (one that cannot be removed under any circumstances) and then support
> > prisoners not being armed. If the right is inalienable, then even they
> > should be carrying. I heard that prison is a dangerous place, with
> > lots of criminals.
>
> This is just false on its face.  

I agree. However, the gun rights absolutist, who I used to debate on
RelayNet and FIDO, said differently. I was able to get them into a box
where they either conceded that the right is not absolute, or, that
prisoners have the right to be armed.

People have an inalienable right to
> life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness - but you can be executed
> with due process of the law when convicted for certain crimes.  A
> murderer alienates himself from that right to life by his actions *and*
> since he is a citizen with a right to vote for the government who made
> the laws he broke, those laws have been legitimately constituted.  You
> may not agree with those laws, but as a citizen you are still bound by
> them.  You can also lose the right to vote for similar reasons - or the
> right to possess a gun.  People often confuse procedural due process
> with substantive due process.
>
> Frankly, there is no absolute right to own a gun.  The Second Amendment
> deals with the defense of states by militias.  For an individual to have
> any chance at victory in a fight with the federal military - which is
> why the NRA suggests we still need guns - frankly, you'd need to have
> anthrax, tanks and atom bombs.

There are those absolutists who believe that is the way things should
be. I have met them.



From: Peter B on

"PeterB - Original" <pkm(a)mytrashmail.com> wrote in message
news:49887a29-e3b2-4a30-8734-eae9f5f82e97(a)d21g2000yqn.googlegroups.com...
On Dec 18, 1:48 pm, Mark Probert <mark.prob...(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> On Dec 18, 1:39 pm, Jim <willcox...(a)yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > Alternative Medicine Pioneer Kidnapped by US Government in Ecuador
> > Medical News Comentaries
> > 17 December 2009 9 Comments
>
> > Dear IMVA,
>
> > Yesterday I received a disturbing email from Greg Caton's wife,
>
> This the same Gregory James Caton previously convicted of a Felony
> crime in 1990?

Yes, for selling herbals, which is a crime depending on how carefully
you step (and sometimes regardless) with regard to product labeling,
lest the seller encroach upon FDA's own monopoly of lies, the most
notable of which is that drugs prevent and cure disease. Metagenics
was once prosecuted for false claims about a calcium supplement, for
example, but they later won the case when the *existing* science was
produced to support their marketing claims.

> The same Gregory James Caton charged with Felon in Possession of
> firearms in 2003? (A lot of them.)

WOW, a gun owner and herbal medicine advocate all in the same body.
What's next, Bambi holding a Bowie?

> Read the indictment
> yourself.http://www.meditopia.org/docs/04-20075-01.document1.pdf

FDA's drug claims are the premise for charges against him, which means
it's a pretty safe bet that none of this was based on any science
whatsoever, but rather on the perceived risk of competitive threat by
FDA's buddies in the drug business.

> He agreed to the prosecution without indictment by the Grand
> Jury.http://www.meditopia.org/docs/04-20075-01.document2.pdf
>
> He entered a plea of Guilty and accepted
> Judgmenthttp://www.meditopia.org/docs/04-20075-01.document3.pdf
>
> He agreed to a fine of $250k and 5 years
> minimum.http://www.meditopia.org/docs/04-20075-01.document4.pdf
>
> And then after he was let out he skipped on his probation, moved to
> another country with lax laws to do the same thing all over again.
>
> All of the case docs here:http://www.meditopia.org/docs

What a busy penguin you are these days, Potemkin. You might want to
read the other side of the story on Caton's website, at
http://www.altcancer.com/h3o.htm.

> No wonder Mikey Adams supports him.

And you don't, because the rights of citizens in a free society mean
nothing to you.
================================================
What part of pleading guilty do you not get? There is no other side.


From: Peter B on

"PeterB - Original" <pkm(a)mytrashmail.com> wrote in message
news:135886c7-3b93-4e63-8387-cdabf33f107d(a)c3g2000yqd.googlegroups.com...
On Dec 18, 5:15 pm, Mark Probert <mark.prob...(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> On Dec 18, 4:12 pm, PeterB - Original <p...(a)mytrashmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Dec 18, 1:48 pm, Mark Probert <mark.prob...(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > On Dec 18, 1:39 pm, Jim <willcox...(a)yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > > > Alternative Medicine Pioneer Kidnapped by US Government in
> > > > Ecuador
> > > > Medical News Comentaries
> > > > 17 December 2009 9 Comments
>
> > > > Dear IMVA,
>
> > > > Yesterday I received a disturbing email from Greg Caton's wife,
>
> > > This the same Gregory James Caton previously convicted of a Felony
> > > crime in 1990?
>
> > Yes, for selling herbals, which is a crime depending on how
> > carefully
> > you step (and sometimes regardless) with regard to product labeling,
> > lest the seller encroach upon FDA's own monopoly of lies, the most
> > notable of which is that drugs prevent and cure disease. Metagenics
> > was once prosecuted for false claims about a calcium supplement, for
> > example, but they later won the case when the *existing* science was
> > produced to support their marketing claims.
>
> > > The same Gregory James Caton charged with Felon in Possession of
> > > firearms in 2003? (A lot of them.)
>
> > WOW, a gun owner and herbal medicine advocate all in the same body.
> > What's next, Bambi holding a Bowie?
>
> > > Read the indictment
> > > yourself.http://www.meditopia.org/docs/04-20075-01.document1.pdf
>
> > FDA's drug claims are the premise for charges against him, which
> > means
> > it's a pretty safe bet that none of this was based on any science
> > whatsoever, but rather on the perceived risk of competitive threat
> > by
> > FDA's buddies in the drug business.
>
> > > He agreed to the prosecution without indictment by the Grand
> > > Jury.http://www.meditopia.org/docs/04-20075-01.document2.pdf
>
> > > He entered a plea of Guilty and accepted
> > > Judgmenthttp://www.meditopia.org/docs/04-20075-01.document3.pdf
>
> > > He agreed to a fine of $250k and 5 years
> > > minimum.http://www.meditopia.org/docs/04-20075-01.document4.pdf
>
> > > And then after he was let out he skipped on his probation, moved
> > > to
> > > another country with lax laws to do the same thing all over again.
>
> > > All of the case docs here:http://www.meditopia.org/docs
>
> > What a busy penguin you are these days, Potemkin. You might want to
> > read the other side of the story on Caton's website,
> > athttp://www.altcancer.com/h3o.htm.
>
> > > No wonder Mikey Adams supports him.
>
> > And you don't, because the rights of citizens in a free society mean
> > nothing to you.
>
> Au contraire. However, there is no question that his marketing tactics
> violarted Federal law.

Oh? What proof do you have that his company's marketing violated
Federal Law?

> One does not get prosecuted without having
> apmple opportunity to prove one's claims with some science.

Care to provide any documentation on those claims, and how they were
false?

> He skipped that part. Even Hulda's Henchmen saw the wise thing to do
> was to stop making unsupportable claims.

You have only pointed to an indictment, no actual evidence of what was
claimed. Typical.

> As for being a felon in possession, I often wonder how the gun right
> absolutists, those who claim that owning a gun is an inalienable
> right...

An "inalienable" right is not the same as one provided for under the
US Constitution.

> (one that cannot be removed under any circumstances) and then support
> prisoners not being armed.

Non sequitur. Prisoners are incarcerated with many rights suspended.
Caton was not in jail.

> If the right is inalienable, then even they
> should be carrying. I heard that prison is a dangerous place, with
> lots of criminals.

You are dangerous but somehow free. Don't tell me, you have an
"inalienable" right to practice stupidity without a license.
===========================================
There is only one such license, and you bought it. It is a matter of
public records.


From: Peter B on

"Kofi" <kofi(a)anon.un> wrote in message
news:kofi-31B795.18124118122009(a)news.east.earthlink.net...
>> As for being a felon in possession, I often wonder how the gun right
>> absolutists, those who claim that owning a gun is an inalienable
>> right
>> (one that cannot be removed under any circumstances) and then support
>> prisoners not being armed. If the right is inalienable, then even
>> they
>> should be carrying. I heard that prison is a dangerous place, with
>> lots of criminals.
>
> This is just false on its face. People have an inalienable right to
> life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness - but you can be executed
> with due process of the law when convicted for certain crimes. A
> murderer alienates himself from that right to life by his actions
> *and*
> since he is a citizen with a right to vote for the government who made
> the laws he broke, those laws have been legitimately constituted. You
> may not agree with those laws, but as a citizen you are still bound by
> them. You can also lose the right to vote for similar reasons - or
> the
> right to possess a gun. People often confuse procedural due process
> with substantive due process.
>
> Frankly, there is no absolute right to own a gun. The Second
> Amendment
> deals with the defense of states by militias. For an individual to
> have
> any chance at victory in a fight with the federal military - which is
> why the NRA suggests we still need guns - frankly, you'd need to have
> anthrax, tanks and atom bombs.

Not so, sorry but your logic is lost on that last paragraph. The
military would be bombing their own homes, families and cities to carry
out such a deed. It also shows a lack of understanding regarding someone
in the military. There is a point, just around the corner, where they
would join the freedom fighters, This is why Obama put them on the watch
list.


From: Peter B on

"PeterB - Original" <pkm(a)mytrashmail.com> wrote in message
news:659767e6-a6ab-4a04-b21c-9c07f5ab60aa(a)m26g2000yqb.googlegroups.com...
On Dec 18, 4:33 pm, "Peter B" <origin...(a)frag.com> wrote:
>
> "Jim" <willcox...(a)yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
> news:a6c6ab7f-3db3-432a-88bc-d10a826e30e0(a)d20g2000yqh.googlegroups.com...
>
> Alternative Medicine Pioneer Kidnapped by US Government in Ecuador
> Medical News Comentaries
> 17 December 2009 9 Comments
>
>Anti US American BS snipped<

It was not anti-American, dimwit, it was anti-bureaucratic
corruption. As usual, you take the side of the corrupt.
================================================
BEEP!!! You have exceeded your stupidity quota.

> Read 98% of this rant against the government of the USA. Yes, that was
> all it was about.

No, dumbass, it was a complaint that sovereign law was ignored at the
behest of a NON elected bureaucratic agency, FDA, whose corrupt ties
to industry are a matter of record. That's what it is all about.
================================================
BEEP!!! BEEP!!! Read the figgen thing all the way to the end, icluding
the section from the agenda driven woman that was called his wife wrote
about. She didn't care two cents about his current plight, nor even
mentioned the truth about his arrest.

> The evil CDC & FDA of the Obama government.

That's right, invoke the name of a popular US President to give cover
to these industry-pimping NON-elected bureaucratic agencies.
Pharmnuts love their UN-elected friends at FDA and CDC because without
them, drug maker profits would become non existent.
======================================================
Just who do you think is in power, dimwit. Just who controls the purse
strings dimwit? HMMMM?

> All at the
> expense of one sorry loser who ran from the US to avoid jail time.

As usual, you show you don't know what you're talking about. He was
not scheduled to serve jail time but was on probation for his "crime"
of selling medicinal (not illegal) herbs. Read about it here...
=====================================================
Post proof of why he was arrested, not heresay. What a dimwitted fool
you are.


> None of their "alt medicines" where touted, not even any truth about
> why
> the poor slob was arrested.

The "poor slob" was arrested for encroaching upon FDA's monopoly turf
in the USA and threatening the profits of the drug makers (the same
reason you are here now, to protect those interests.)
=======================================================
No, ignoranus. He "legally" set up his business in that country, he had
a right to sell there according to their laws.
You, suh, are injecting falsehoods, strawmen into a scenario about which
you have no understanding. Typical for imbeciles.

<remainder of newbie pharmnut rant snipped>
PP dimwit.