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From: Robert from Michigan on 24 Feb 2007 00:25
I some what agree with the posters here, with one issue..

the *bf* is an adult and the "child" should be taught to respect adults
regardless of what the situation. If the mother is going to allow her son
to walk all over her bf then he needs to rethink dating her.

By not teaching or reinforcing some sort of structure within the home she is
disrespecting her bf as well as doing an Injustice to her son who will learn
about the "real world' the hard way.

I have 3 children from my first marriage, my wife has None. I have full
custody of my children and my wife and I discuss any and all discipline
issues with each other. I learned that children will play one parent
against the other and often will do it even more with a "step" parent.

So he needs to make a choice either he is IN the picture or he is not. From
what he is saying about the mother he is NOT .. and needs to move on with
his life and find someone else...

(I am sure this is just one item on a long list of issues that will come to
haunt the relationship if it continues.)

If my kids disrespect my wife they will (and have) lose any and all
liberties ..be grounded, what ever it takes to get them to learn to respect
myself and my wife and any other adult in their life.

Children should respect their elders PERIOD!!

My ex-gf I was dating prior to my wife told her 2 yr old daughter to "get
the F*** out of her face" I immediately told her we were done.. that alone
told me enough about her character that I would no longer be able to
continue dating her.

children need to learn responsibility and respect before they become adults,
or they will have a very hard time in life as adults.



"-Calliope-" <calliope123remove(a)remove.gmail.com> wrote in message
news:Xns98B2C34E015F919599491(a)207.217.125.201...
> On Mon 08 Jan 2007 05:31:35p, S.D. wrote:
>
>> Your observation is right!!!!! Except you left out one crucial part
>> before you jumped down to a "head exploding" conclusion ----- I
>> understand the BM and son relationship, and I got the "I'm told I'm
>> wrong" part. But, the "BF posted" looking for options.
>
> And your advice to force a minor child to leave his home, because the
> boyfriend doesn't like how he's being raised is disgusting. But not all
> that surprising coming from you. Not at all.
>
>> So, I gave him "what I felt" were options to his dilemma, and "leaving"
>> would likely be his last choice, which is why it was placed last.
>
> Requesting a parent to choose their lover over their child should not be
> on the table at all, it shouldn't be an "option" at all.....
>
> IF this child were being violent or some such I could see trying to get
> him help, but the complaints here are that he simply doesn't like how the
> child's mother has raised him.. he needs to talk to his girlfriend and
> explain his feelings, certainly.. but in the end, she's the parent.. not
> the BF.
>
>
>
>
>


From: Banty on 24 Feb 2007 11:28
In article <Xns98E15AD64B77819599491(a)207.217.125.201>, -Calliope- says...
>
>On Sat 24 Feb 2007 12:25:01a, Robert from Michigan wrote:
>
>> I some what agree with the posters here, with one issue..
>>
>> the *bf* is an adult and the "child" should be taught to respect
>> adults regardless of what the situation. If the mother is going to
>> allow her son to walk all over her bf then he needs to rethink dating
>> her.
>
>I don't see how this is disagreeing with what any of us said, though
>necessarily. The problem, if I recall the OP (this is a very old thread
>and I did not go back and re-read and I'm JUST waking up, lol..) is that
>the OP's solution was to send the kid to his dad's.. to me.. a kid is not
>someone you throw away, because you don't want him around. And if you're
>going to get involved with someone that has kids you have to know that
>it'll be hard work and you may not always agree with how that parent is
>raising their kids.
>
>> By not teaching or reinforcing some sort of structure within the home
>> she is disrespecting her bf as well as doing an Injustice to her son
>> who will learn about the "real world' the hard way.
>
>I don't disagree.
>
>> I have 3 children from my first marriage, my wife has None. I have
>> full custody of my children and my wife and I discuss any and all
>> discipline issues with each other. I learned that children will play
>> one parent against the other and often will do it even more with a
>> "step" parent.
>
>Yep.
>
>> So he needs to make a choice either he is IN the picture or he is not.
>> From what he is saying about the mother he is NOT .. and needs to
>> move on with his life and find someone else...
>>
>> (I am sure this is just one item on a long list of issues that will
>> come to haunt the relationship if it continues.)
>>
>> If my kids disrespect my wife they will (and have) lose any and all
>> liberties ..be grounded, what ever it takes to get them to learn to
>> respect myself and my wife and any other adult in their life.
>>
>> Children should respect their elders PERIOD!!
>
>eh.. I believe there are some very good exceptions. I didn't raise my
>children to be blindly obediant; IMO, doing so raises children who don't
>learn to think for themselves to do what is right and know what is wrong.
>
>Blind obediance is how I ended up a molested child, for instance.
>
>My children do not in any way, shape or form respect their father or his
>wife. But it is their father who killed their respect for him, as they
>did at one time. Nearly every single thing he has done in the last seven
>(!!!!) years has chipped away bit by bit any respect that he had.
>
>His wife lost their respect very early in the game.. I think even before
>she sent them letters detailing what burdens they were.. (because she
>didn't like our custody arrangement, didn't like that his being with his
>kids meant she was not with just him, and *gasp* that he was financially
>obligated to support them!) They are, put simply, not people deserving of
>respect.
>
>> My ex-gf I was dating prior to my wife told her 2 yr old daughter to
>> "get the F*** out of her face" I immediately told her we were done..
>> that alone told me enough about her character that I would no longer
>> be able to continue dating her.
>
>I don't blame you... not sure how that relates to this situation though.
>
>> children need to learn responsibility and respect before they become
>> adults, or they will have a very hard time in life as adults.
>
>They do, I agree with caveats. I don't think rejecting a kid and sending
>them away necessilarly teaches this however.
>
>I don't think I've ever spoke here about how my mom and dad sent my older
>brother to live with our biological father when he was 16 y/o because he
>was a difficult child. This left lasting scars.. so much so that we saw
>him only three times in the next 22 years. (Thankfully, he's worked
>really hard to learn how to deal with that early rejection and came back
>to the family several years ago.. losing my brother this way was hard for
>*all* of us)
>
>I agree that the OP, IIR his situation correctly, needs to discuss his
>concerns about their situation with the mom and try to work out a solution
>that works for the three of them, but if not, rather than getting her to
>send the kid away, needs to decide if he can live with the situation the
>way it is, or move on, himself.
>

Yep.

I don't really disagree with "Robert from Michigan" either, but I have a couple
of red flags I see flying when I read his post. It's just so heavy-handed about
this stuff.

First of all, in this thread and also the "bio mom probs" thread, I see this
self-orientation that some step parents have about how someone else - a step
child, even a bio child, an ex, respects *them*. This is that utterance or
incident shows how much the that awful other person don't 'spect them :-/
Well, yes, people should treat each other with basic respect, including
families, but inevitably people show their not-so-great sides to each other in
any family. And all too often I've seen this "lack of respect" as a prelude to
"my way or the highway". *Especially* with teens.

Well - life isn't always about oneself, and whether or not oneself is getting
respected (and, dammit, I think a lot of this "but in the Real World they have
to have learned respect" stuff is just self-justifiction for oneself thinking
one needs all that 'spect!).

Again, of course peole need to respect either other, but a heavy-handed emphasis
on this warns me that maybe there is either some desire for *power* really going
on, or a rationalization for impending *rejection* that's going on. Not saying
it's so, but saying the needle on my BS detector is starting to move...

So that's one red flag.

The other one is the one I've talked about so often - teens. Not too many teens
will be saying "yes, sir", "no, ma'am", setting the table on time, and sitting
on the couch with their hands folded, bringing in good grades and sports
trophies, now are there! (Going to an extreme I admit for emphasis.) They
*are* increasingly independant, they *are* still developing their thinking
skills, and they *do* push back. Normal, good ones. And ones who have gone
through all the upheavals that lead people to be posting in
alt.support.step-parents about them - - even more so!!

And if that push-back and ordinary rebellion gets picked up by a parent (step OR
bio) as an excuse to reject them, it's a damn tragedy, show of weakness and
immaturity, and abandonment of obligation.

Banty

From: Caitriona Mac Fhiodhbhuidhe on 24 Feb 2007 15:36

Banty wrote:
<snipped>
> The other one is the one I've talked about so often - teens. Not too many teens
> will be saying "yes, sir", "no, ma'am", setting the table on time, and sitting
> on the couch with their hands folded, bringing in good grades and sports
> trophies, now are there! (Going to an extreme I admit for emphasis.) They
> *are* increasingly independant, they *are* still developing their thinking
> skills, and they *do* push back. Normal, good ones. And ones who have gone
> through all the upheavals that lead people to be posting in
> alt.support.step-parents about them - - even more so!!
>
> And if that push-back and ordinary rebellion gets picked up by a parent (step OR
> bio) as an excuse to reject them, it's a damn tragedy, show of weakness and
> immaturity, and abandonment of obligation.
>


And there in a nutshell is part of the problem. Where do you draw the
line? Where do you say, "I'll deal with this as best I can," and
where do you say, "Enough!" and leave? Do you contribute yet another
abandonment, or do you fight it out?

Kitten

From: Banty on 24 Feb 2007 16:56
In article <1172349404.867938.77020(a)t69g2000cwt.googlegroups.com>, Caitriona Mac
Fhiodhbhuidhe says...
>
>
>Banty wrote:
><snipped>
>>The other one is the one I've talked about so often - teens. Not too many teens
>>will be saying "yes, sir", "no, ma'am", setting the table on time, and sitting
>> on the couch with their hands folded, bringing in good grades and sports
>> trophies, now are there! (Going to an extreme I admit for emphasis.) They
>> *are* increasingly independant, they *are* still developing their thinking
>> skills, and they *do* push back. Normal, good ones. And ones who have gone
>> through all the upheavals that lead people to be posting in
>> alt.support.step-parents about them - - even more so!!
>>
>>And if that push-back and ordinary rebellion gets picked up by a parent (step OR
>> bio) as an excuse to reject them, it's a damn tragedy, show of weakness and
>> immaturity, and abandonment of obligation.
>>
>
>
>And there in a nutshell is part of the problem. Where do you draw the
>line? Where do you say, "I'll deal with this as best I can," and
>where do you say, "Enough!" and leave? Do you contribute yet another
>abandonment, or do you fight it out?
>
>Kitten
>

Think- at what point of bad teenaged behavior do you think it acceptable for
intact families to kick their teenaged child out or send him or her to a
relative?

Now think - Why should step families have any different standard from intact
families? I don't see anything. So, yes, the standard is rather high.

Banty

From: Vicki Robinson on 24 Feb 2007 17:26
In a previous article, Banty <Banty_member(a)newsguy.com> said:

>In article <1172349404.867938.77020(a)t69g2000cwt.googlegroups.com>, Caitriona Mac
>Fhiodhbhuidhe says...
>>
>>And there in a nutshell is part of the problem. Where do you draw the
>>line? Where do you say, "I'll deal with this as best I can," and
>>where do you say, "Enough!" and leave? Do you contribute yet another
>>abandonment, or do you fight it out?
>
>Think- at what point of bad teenaged behavior do you think it acceptable for
>intact families to kick their teenaged child out or send him or her to a
>relative?
>
>Now think - Why should step families have any different standard from intact
>families? I don't see anything. So, yes, the standard is rather high.

OK, but when is it time for the step-parent to bail? I think that's Kitten's
point. Not kicking the kid out, but saying "Enough is enough; I'm not helping
by allowing myself to be torn down" and leaving.

Vicki
--
"I'm just a bad Christian. A bad born-again Christian. And certainly, like
the apostle Peter, I am capable of denying it, of presenting myself as a sort
of leftist liberation-theology enthusiast and maybe sort of a vaguely Jesusy
bon vivant. But it's not true" --Anne Lamott
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